Funches - i can go no further then until you lay down what you will accept explitly as proof that adam/eve had at least basic "comprehension" if i dont understand that then i cannot reply to you, what minimal proof do you want or need to put A&E into a catagory that is above the realm of sheep?

..er.."tribo"..basic comprehension would mean that Adam and Eve would have comprehend that they were naked ....the point is that Adam and Eve didn't comprehend that they were naked just like all the other animals in the Garden of Eden didn't realize they were naked ...but only after Adam and Eve ate the apple did this fact become clear...so if the sheep ate the apple would the sheep realized it was naked ...

it was the bible that stated that Adam and Eve lack the sense to know they were naked ......so why are you trying to blame me...heck I didn't write the thing ..I'm just pointing it out ..if you can not come up with a fesible explanation then blame yourself or the bible but please don't make it my fault why you won't respond

hahaaha read my response to abra above oops page 3, this is my take on their nakedness, i'm not blaming you for anything sorry if i gave that impression.

Dear abra - as an X-believer - this is the point being made in genisis. Adam and eve were made/created in perfect goodness,at first neither of them knew any evil -

when the fruit was eaten an awareness came over them that was probably like this - they looked at each other in a lustful way.it was not the "nakedness" - it was the comprehension of a new desire(s) and new feelings that rushed upon them that made them feel "ashamed" not shame for their nakedness shame for the thought's they were having and how those thought's were making them feel,

I read it and this is why you stated



"tribo" as an ex-believer you should know that only god is supposely perfect and that God create Man as imperfect so your statement that Adam and Eve was created in perfect goodness which is impossible only suggest that they both existed in ignorant bliss because they lack knowledge
to know what good and evil were



so "tribo" ...if the sheep in the Garden of Eden have eaten the apple then would the sheep begin looking at each other in a lustful way ..see that is the point you keep missing..that Adam and Eve was no different then the other animals until they ate the apple
[/quote







Perfect goodness or just goodness if you must, meaning they had no sin in them (at that point) - not that they were like god - god knew as he states both good and evil when he exclaims "they will become as us knowing both good and evil, after they had eaten from the tree.. You'll have to tell me the verse in genesis where god says he created man imperfect? i have not read that? As to them being ignorant - ignorance does not mean dumb or stupid - or being like the animals.

ig�no�rance
Pronunciation: \ˈig-n(ə-)rən(t)s\
Function: noun
Date: 13th century
: the state or fact of being ignorant : lack of knowledge, education, or awareness

simply put - everyone including me and you are ignorant by definition - no one here on earth has all knowledge,is educated in every field of education that exist,nor fully aware of all there is to be aware of. I'd say few if any are even all knowledgeable in those realm's they have been educated to have as their chosen profession's, Einstien surely was not. That's why i had asked you to begin with - what degree of intellect or non ignorace would you accept to show that they were above plain old animal instinct's?

They lacked knowledge of evil - which was god's original intent - for man not to know evil, that would not make them dumb animal's - just being's that did not have to deal with evil in their lives if they had not dis-obeyed gods wishes.If the story was true - i would have liked that to be the case also.

As to not getting your point that you believe they were on the same level as the animal's i can only point you to what god states in genesis - chpt 1 vs - 15 where he puts man in the garden to dress it ( maintain) it - which would require skills animals would not have unless you know of any sheep that can work a farm and plant or maintain crop health or tree pruning or any other skills needed to do this type of maintenance needed.Plus the "understanding" Adam shows by obeying gods initial wishes and commands - all of them not just the fruit, 3) gods absence or lack of concern to make any demand's on the other animals! If they were all the same type and just as smart as man, keep this in mind - if man was of no more import than the rest of gods creation - why bother making rules and regulation's for man and not the animal's? if there is no differece in intellect,comprehension,etc., between the two? 4)God ask no other earthly creation to follow any command or rules past the natural instincts they were given to live and survive - so why man? if man is just another snake,worm,sheep,cow,goat,- why man? Because he gave man comprehension - the ability to reason, to understand, inntellect - no matter how much or how little, he was not an animal nor a robot, nor a slave, he had choice, and he chose to do something he should not have, none of which had anything to do with there state of being naked.Metaphorically - there nakedness could also be a symbol of there total dependence on god for all they needed. As i started out saying to abra - nakedness is not the issue in this scenario, nor is ignorance, or if it is ignorance it is on our part as we are today in our attept's to understand.

As to not getting your point that you believe they were on the same level as the animal's i can only point you to what god states in genesis - chpt 1 vs - 15 where he puts man in the garden to dress it ( maintain) it -

which would require skills animals would not have unless you know of any sheep that can work a farm and plant or maintain crop health or tree pruning or any other skills needed to do this type of maintenance needed.

You move your fingers and type the words, but nothing makes sense with what you put here.
Its all second-hand rhetoric. You pick long words you cannot spell, and soundbites that are tired and for some unfathomable reason you love the word licentious ...

it's "wouldee's" way of trying to hide his passive aggression

"tribo" maintain could mean to spread fertilizer



see 'tribo' now you are making up stuff...The Garden of Eden was name that because all Adam and Eve had to do was to eat have sex and take a dump ..now you got them working on a farm like on 'Green Acres"

As for you - i'm not sure whether you really want answers or your just trying to sharpen your debating skills???
sincerely - TRIBO

Wouldee speaks in parables and languages known only to spirits of the undead.

"Tribo" you just admited you were making up stuff to get your point across....in other words lieing ..I mean the deception in your posts are so obvious .. but if you notice I never once resorted to using those types of deception tactics...

The point of debate is to possibly get to another level of understanding about the sugject that is being debated ..what's the point if you are going to resort to deception

you claimed to be an ex-believer but it appears you are still programmed not to think beyond your ex-belief

i don't care if you believe my post or not

well 'Tribo" what's to believe when you already admitted that you were lieing ....all I was saying is why debate if you have to resort to that

what your calling a lie is no more than exspanding on what adam might have done in caring for eden.

"Tribo" maybe you could get away with that type of stuff in the other forums you debated in but in here it's called lieing ...and you trying to justify it as something else makes it worse...but hey if that's how you debate ..then more power to you

... and himself ...

you will not acknowledge my answer's are right or correct or even plausable -
sincerely - tribo

you had Adam and Eve pruning tress and doing farm work in the Garden of Eden when it was suppose to be paradise ..you know them doing any type of such labor was not true...and it took the discussion off the mark ..I'm surprise you didn't have them trying to milk a bull

you got caught lieing...deal with it..and stop blaming me for catching you committing your transgressions ..I surprise at what I'm about to say but..er..maybe you need to go back to Jesus

I know I always wondered that too... plus their kids must have had kids with their brothers and sisters since they were the only 2...

We are ALL INBRED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(I really need a scratching head icon!!!!)

PS: you also never got back to me on your statement that god created man "imperfectly"
my "" mark's - tribo