Sh!t does not "Just Happen."

Thoughts (thinking centers-minds) make it happen.

There is no blame. I am not and never have been talking about blame. Please understand this. I have told you this before but you just don't understand because you keep telling me that I am attempting to place blame. I am not.
I am identifying cause.

The only thing that is to blame is ignorance of the causal and spiritual laws at work.

It is not and never has been about blame. It is about responsibility. These are not the same thing, but you have a negative view of the word responsibility and you think of it as blame.

Here is the difference: Blame is someone pointing the finger at someone or something else. Responsibility is all self contained.

I am not to blame, but I am responsible.

I wish you could see the difference.

Abra:




It seems to me that you and Krimsa brought this part of the subject up again, so I am going to suggest that it is you who needs to get past it and move forward.

You believe in random bad luck, accidents and innocent victims of evil doers and a world of pure chaos. I get it. If that gives you comfort, then that is your true path.

It appears that just because I have not changed my opinion on this point, you are still "uncomfortable" by this. (Since you and Krimsa brought it up.)

That's just okay with me really it is.

You were the one who was talking about people shaking their fist at God.

:shruggs shoulers:

People who give emotional examples of other people being abused, dieing in natural disasters, getting killed in airplanes, being murdered, and otherwise being innocent victims of circumstance in a chaotic world are shaking their fist at God or blaming fate or bad luck or randomness.

Do none of these things have cause? Are we living in a lawless random hell? Are we either victims or perpentrators? Do we have no power or choice in the way we live or the way we think?

Is that what you find comfort in believing?

Sure they have causes. I never claimed that they don't. Some causes are caused by the actions of individuals. Some causes are truly random.

I have no problem with that.



I see no reason to believe otherwise.



Yep.



Of course we do, but that power of choice is limited. I can assure you of that. And I'm sure you're well aware of it as well.

I get my peace of mind by simply accepting whatever is and not worrying about it.

You get your peace of mind by convincing yourself that it all has meaning and everything is justified in the end.

I guess a lot of people need 'justification'.

I'm willing to accept the fact that there may be no justification.

Whatever is, is.

Period.

No justice required.

Que Sara Sara.

So what are you, a victim or a perpetrator?



Nothing has 'meaning' unless you apply meaning to it.

Everything has cause.

Everything is fair even if you cannot see the pattern, and yes, that gives me peace.

Randomness is the consciousness factor at work.



********************************************



There has always Been..

There has always been a war
raging where we could not see,
and someone is keeping score
in the branches of life's tree.

There has always been a peace
in the silence at the core,
as we wait for the release
of the burdens that we bore.

There has always been a hope
when the last of it seems gone;
and no one knows the scope
of the pattern that is drawn.

And the history of the game
written in the worlds above
will forever be the same;
for there has always been a Love.

By Gloria Jean

We are both, or neither, depending on who's passing subjective judgments.

When I post on the General Forums I'm the perpetrator.

When I come here and talk to you I'm the victim.




Nice poem.

Thanks!





Neither? Are you changing your answer then? Before I asked if we are either a victim or perpetrator and you answered 'YES.'

So that is why I asked you which one you were.

Now you are saying we can be both or neither. hummmmm...




Oh goody!

I thought I was the victim!

You mean I get to be the perp?



Here come the Perp --
Here come the perp --
Here come the perp! --

I'm so honored!

They hate me, they really really hate me!

(Takes her Perp trophey and runs off the stage.)

Just as an infant born with a deformity or an ailment did not create those circumstances nor would the inhabitants and tourists residing on an island hit by a devastating Tsunami be responsible for creating that reality.

You are not applying your analogy correctly and it is clear that you don't get what I am saying.

The ego of the infant did not create its deformity as I have told you before. It is inhabited and animated with its true spiritual and infinite self, who entered this world, glad to have any kind of body at all, bringing with it all of its own personal vibrations.

The weather, as is all physical manifestations in this world is manifested by the collective universal mind in which each individual plays a part.

Did you know that, done right, an Indian rain dance really can attract rain? So can group prayer. Of course people will call this a coincidence.

So you are saying that the spirit in some manner attracted the deformity. I dont believe that is an accurate depiction of the Law of Attraction and it has not been adequately presented as such.

The weather is not controlled by a collective conscious. The global climate, weather patterns, ocean and atmosphere teleconnections are not effected by humans at all. We are in fact at their mercy. The best we can do is accurately predict them and prepare. I do not give humans credit for more than they rightfully deserve. If you choose to, thats your own decision. I simply find that yet another inaccuracy in your book synopsis.

If you look at life from the limited viewpoint of the human consciousness what you describe above is indeed what you will see and it is only the surface of the situation.

The spirit seeks entrance into this physical world and will be attracted to any entrance portal available. The body requires spirit animation or it will die. The spirit is attracted to the body and gives it life. Once entrance to this world is gained, the spirit can return many times to live many lives.

Whether or not "humans" can effect the weather patterns cannot be proved. But the universal mind manifests this world with thought just as we manifest our little worlds with our little thoughts. This is a thought universe of light and sound and reflection. That is the spiritual truth of it. The view you are taking is the one from the human consciousness and from human perception. When you look at it from the view of spirit, you see things differently.

If you view life in the limited capacity of the premise that we are responsible for everything that happens over the course of our existence, then you are in fact strapping yourself to a fatalistic viewpoint that we are somehow responsible for drawing all mode of circumstance to us either good or bad. You leave no room for the possibility of random occurrence.



That does not address what I was speaking to. I have no argument with this understanding. What I do take issue with is the idea that the spirit attracts the deformity or whatever condition present at birth. Still waiting on an explanation.



What are you implying here exactly? That you have some inside track into the spirit world and the understanding they might possess of their surroundings?

I am implying that everyone does. But they choose to focus on and through the human consciousness. You are more than human and you can imagine yourself as a spirit being and you can begin to see things from that perspective because that is your true self.

Thats probably the most subjective comment ever uttered on this forum.

Random occurrence arises from other individuals. What they do cannot be predicted or controlled. You can only have control over your own vibrations, not others.

Like vibrations are attracted to other like vibrations. If you attract certain other individuals into your experience they contribute to your reality in random and unknown ways in which you have no control over, but you did attract them.

The spirit may not have attracted the deformity so much as it was attracted to the deformed body and accepted it as consequence for its entry into this world. I do not claim to know all of the details or reasons for every choice an individual spiritual being makes. Each case is unique and could have past life connections to the people involved in that particular life.

Now I have answered this question the best way I possibly can. If that is not sufficient for you, then I don't know what else to say.

Why are those the only two choices?

Why does everything need to be judged?

Why not just be?

Why do you feel a need to classify everything into either perpetration or victimizing?

If those are the only two categories of existence then anytime you are not purposefully perpetrating something you are necessarily a victim because there's nothing else to be.

According to you there are no victims, all that exists are perpetrators. You go even further and claim that only you can perpetrate unto yourself, otherwise you'd have to concede that you can be a victim of another perpetrator.

And like Krimsa points out, natural disasters would certainly fall under the category of 'perpetrators' as well.

I guess our real difference is that you are suggesting that we are the perpetrators of everything that happens to us whether we realize it or not. And my view is that you're only a perpetrator when you go about it methodically and purposefully, otherwise you truly can become a victim.

Moreover, I hold that even when you go about it methodically and purposefully there are times when you will still become a victim. You may be able to lessen the results of that. But you're still a victim non the less.

But of course you can be neither. If you're not purposefully perpetrating anything, and nothing is happening to you that you are in disagreement with, then you most certainly wouldn't consider yourself to be a victim either.

So there are states of being where you are neither a victim or a perpetrator. In fact, I would suggest that this has be the bulk of my life's experience.

In fact, I've said this many times in another form. I have always said, "I don't feel like a participant in this life, I feel more like an observer".

So perhaps 'observer' is the third option when you are neither the perpetrator nor the victim.

That's where I'm at.

I'm an observer.

Except perhaps in the case of Internet forums where I do participate. I'm a cyber-life participant. And when I participate sometimes I feel like the perpetrator, other times I feel like the victim, and yet other times I just feel like a 'sharer' or observer.

Perhaps there are many other states of being that we have yet to consider.

So far I've come up with.

1. Observer
2. Sharer
3. Perpetrator
4. Victim

Perhaps we can make a list of all the possible states of being and design a whole new philosophy.

A lot of people would probably like to add 'Lover' to the list, but that would truly come under 'sharer'. They would just be sharing love.

So there are at least four states of being, and possibly others.

Everything doesn't need to be reduced to perpetrators and victims. That's a rather simplistic view of life.

No it’s never been addressed effectively but thanks for playing.

To investigate the answers to these kinds of questions you would have to name a specific person, and then be psychic enough to be able to communicate with that person's over-soul for the answers. In other words, ask him, don't ask me. I have no way of knowing, especially when the question is hypothetical.