The debate over whether or not someone can practice any form of Christianity and witchcraft at the same time is one I have heard many times. there are pagans out there who are adamant about the fact that one cannot. However, they are usually the ones who are very hostile towards anything Christian. They go around ranting about the tortures inflicted on them by Christians and making derogatory remarks about them every chance they get.

I am of the opinion that you can practice both since it would seem that many people do it. It simply is possible or it wouldn't be happening.

I am also of the opinion that bashing Christians for atrocities committed in the past is the same thing as yelling at Germans today for the Holocaust. Or at white people today for slavery. Or any other horrific event in the past. Yes, Christians can be very annoying with their constant preaching and if their going to force their views on others than they deserve whatever verbal lambasting they get. But, you can't hold a group of people responsible today for what happened in the past regardless of their race, religion or anything else.

Yes we forget that our ancestors who came to America and did battle with the Native Americans very unfairly and cruel, is why we are here. I hate that it happened that way, but I don't think I want to go back to London.


If you asked most blacks if they are angry about slavery, they might be... but I don't think they would want to go back and live in the jungle.

We might be mad at Christianity, but I don't want to wear a burka either.

don't knock a burka till ya try it.

The bottom line is that you have to take people on an individual basis.

Hey, JB, I have a question for you. I have been pulling a card a day for the last month or so. During that time I must have pulled the Ace of Swords at least 4 or 5 times and now twice in a row. yesterday and today. Would you think that's just how my life is right now (which it is) or would you think that the cards were trying to tell you something specific.

The bulk of my cards have been swords too. It's probably just how my life is right now.

The ace of swords where it relates to your Health:

You need to find ways to release the pressure of pent-up emotions, stress and anxiety.

The fact that you draw a lot of swords indicates that you do have a lot of it. (Stress and anxiety.)

Physical activity is the panacea you've been looking for. Join a gym, hire a personal trainer, or create an exercise program you can live with. Whichever plan you follow, working out on a daily basis helps to bring your physical and mental energy into balance.

Spiritually:
This ace relates to the destruction of illusion in the search for understanding. It allows you to use your intellect to pierce the veil of the material universe and uncover spiritual truths.

Empowerment: You overcome obstacles by applying your willpower and intellect to problem solving.

My first impression:
This ace is telling you to hang in there. It tells you to use your intellect and inner strength. It is the raw energy of determination.

Thanks. You confirmed exactly my impression and feelings about it. A lot of stress these days, yes.

Regarding the exercise....can I substitutue street drugs for that?

It would seem to me that it would come down to how one defines "Christianity".

If it's defined by it dogma then how could witchcraft be condoned by a Christian? The Bible clearly states as a commandment, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live".

It claims that witchcraft is not the work of God, but an appeal to the power of Satan.

So I don't see how they can truly coincide based on the dogma.

However, if "Christianity" is divined by however a person wants to define it, then it becomes a free for all and anything goes.

I've stated this before in the GR forums.

Protestantism originally came to be a protest against the Catholic Church and the Pope being the divine interpreter of scripture.

In fact, if you're a Catholic and the Pope doesn't agree that witchcraft is compatible with Catholicism then it seems to me that you really have no choice but to go by his decision.

On the other hand, if you're a protestant you can protest against the pope's authority and make you're own call. (so I wonder if you aren't really a protestant witch and just don't realize it. )

In any case, I've decided to take protestantism for it's word, that no man can interpret scripture and that only the Holy Spirit can communicate directly to each individual.

From that point of view, I feel that the Holy Spirit had conveyed to me that the entire Old Testament is a lie, and that the New Testament was about a man who tried to get people to realized that the Old Testament is a lie and he failed.

So in that sense I'm a Protestant Christian who now views Jesus as a mortal man.

Witchcraft is certainly open to me since I denounce the book that had denounced witchcraft.

From my point of view it was that book that came from the evil minds of men, and not witchcraft.

I know you are joking, but seriously.... no.

Welcome kalenkatastrophe!!!

Yes, but I loved it. It's very fascinating to me to learn other peoples world and spiritual views. Though we all may differ in them, the beauty is that they are all correct for our own individual path in this life.

Yeah I like that people are into different aspects of this and they have varying interests. Its expected amongst Pagans. I define Pagan as anyone who is not Judeo-Christian or Muslim so thats pretty broad and could be anything else.

Just have to jump in on a few points here.

Krim, Jesus DID say that many are bound for hell, but he was not NECCESARILY referring to "non-believers". Read the passage regarding Jesus and the Centurion. I'll paraphrase here. Essentially, a Roman Centurion approached Jesus because his servant was sick. When Jesus told the man to take him to his home, the Centurion's response was esssentially, "You don't have to come to my house. Say that he is healed and it will be done." When Jesus commented on this, this was the Centurion's response, as near as I can remember, from the King James: "I recognize that you are a man under authority, as am I. If I tell this man to go, he goes. If I say to this man "come", he comes." Essentially, "I don't know where your authority and power is derived from, but I know that it works." At this point, Jesus turned to his disciples and said, again as near as I remember, "Verily I say unto thee, never have I seen such faith, even among the faithful. When I am seated at my Father's right hand, many will come from the east and the west to eat at my Father's table, while many who call themselves sons of Abraham will be cast out where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth." The East and West are obvious references to other cultures, most notably the Samaritans, who were "unclean". So, Jesus wasn't nearly as concerned with labels as he was with who a person is inside.

Abra, the Bible does NOT state "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.", in much the same way it does NOT state "Thou shalt not kill" as one of the commandments. The commandment is "Thou shalt not commit murder", a fine, but profound, distinction. Both of these are through linguistic corruption and mistranslation. In Old Testament Hebrew, depending on dialect, the word that is translated as "witch" has one of three meanings. Poisoner, assassin, or farmer. The closest translation would be poisoner. This was corrupted during translation, in that the word for herbalist or apothecary is very similar to the word for poisoner, because they, in Hebrew, share the same root. In England, during the translation into English, most herbalists were older women with a large store of folk knowledge, and most were viewed as being witches. Hence the translation as such. There are several other examples of these types of mistranslation, but one of my favorites has always been the Hebrew word "Abba". Biblically, Abba is always translated as "father", which, while technically correct, misses the EMOTIONAL meaning entirely. A better translation would be "daddy". A HUGE emotional difference. "Father" is a disciplinary figure. "Daddy" is the person into whos lap you climb at the end of a long day, you tell him all your sorrows, and he "makes it all better", which are the emotional connotations invoked, in Hebrew, by the word "Abba".

So, is it obvious yet that I was "this close" to being a minister? :)

First off, hello and welcome. I'm curious... why didn't you become the minister you were on the path to becoming?

Wow Abra, that almost completely describes me as well.

I was born into it. Everyone I knew was a Christian. So as a little kid I thought everyone was and those who weren't were just strange.
Then I grew up

My mom was a Baptist then turned Prebyterian. My dad and his whole family are Catholic.

My mom's side... well IDK even know what they are anymore as they went and built their own Church.
Growing up and going to so many different churches, but all are supposed to be following the same Bible, not a one of them got a long.
It got very confusing to me. I never understood how people reading the same book got so many different opinions and beliefs.

One of my aunts on my mom's side doesn't go to church anymore. She's recently decided against organized religion. She built a prayer room in her house so she can talk to God everyday. And she tells you about the conversations she has with God. She talks him and apparently he answers her like they're old pals. No wonder I could never talk to God. He was alway busy with my aunt...

My mom to this day is disappointed in me that I won't follow her religion. I know it bothers her and upsets her, but it's just how it is. My dad is more on my side tho than he used to be. He's learned to question things and not follow blindly just because it's what we're supposed to believe.

When I question the bible around my mother, she gets all upset so I don't even bring it up. We just simply don't discuss religion. It's better this way but in some ways it bothers me... as I can't share my beliefs and lifestyle with my own parents.

All I can say is that I made a miserable Christian. I could never figure out why loving God was soo... uneventful, for lack of a better word. I felt nothing. No connection. Nada.

I make a much better Pagan than I ever did a Christian.

Well, I beg to differ with you on that one. The King James Bible that I'm using has the following verbatim words.

Exodus 22:18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

Straight from the Bible verbatim.



I'll be the first to agree that interpretations and translations of the Bible are quite ambiguous and the term 'witch' means different things to different people depending on their own interpretations, etc.

But let's face it, most people are going to automatically assume that the term 'witch' refers to anyone who practices 'witchcraft'. And witchcraft is often seen as any rituals that call upon the forces of nature or spirit for the purpose of transformation or manifestation. In other words, anyone who practices magick with a 'k' is a witch then.

Note: The 'k' differentiates spiritual magick from illusion, or stage magic, which is spelled without the 'k'.

In any case, the Bible does specifically states in verbatim words, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." so most people are going to assume that anyone who practices witchcraft is a witch.



I too almost become a Christian minister. Most people who read my posts probably think I'm Satan himself.

But actually I was very much a worshiper of Jesus. I was born and raised into a Christian family and many of my uncles where preachers. They would often have religious discussions after dinner, or sitting around a campfire where they would disagree with each other on central issues. And these were all Free Methodists, so we're even talking about a single Christian denomination here.

Well, it immediately came to my attention that even educated clergy who have made preaching the gospel their life's career can't seem to agree on what the Bible says. Actually that didn't even stop me in and of itself. I figured there had to be an single absolute correct answer. I was indeed an 'absolutist' in those days. I believed in absolute truths and that once the absolute truth was discovered it was absolutely correct.

Therefore, if the Bible is truly divine and genuinely the words of the supreme creator of this universe then there should be no ambiguity at all. Perhaps it's in the CONTEXT of the stories I thought. So I decided to study it myself and find these absolute answers.

What I discovered is that the bible is truly vague, inconsistent, and outright self-contradicting. I finally came to the conclusion that it is truly a worthless book. Particularly the Old Testament.

I agree that the things that Jesus taught were cool. At least the moral principles that he is attributed to teaching. In fact, they are the very same moral principles that were taught by Buddha centuries earlier. Jesus added nothing new! A lot of Christians like to claim that only Jesus brought these concepts to man, but that's is an utter falsehood. Jesus taught precisely the very same things that Buddha taught centuries before he was ever born. Jesus add nothing new.

Of course, then we come to the demagoguery part where the Christians claim that Jesus was the sacrificial lamb of God and that everyone must believe in him and accept him as their 'savior'. But even according to the Bible Jesus was never attributed to saying any of those things. That kind of demagoguery was clearly added by the authors who were claiming what Jesus said. It's obvious to me that this is precisely what happened.

Ironically, it was actually my desire to preach the gospel that lead me to the profound conclusion that it can't possibly be true. I am totally convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that Jesus was not the son of the God of Abraham, and that he in fact denounced the teachings of the Old Testament. Even the Bible is 100% in agreement with that. This is precisely where I got the information!

The demagoguery that Jesus was born of a virgin, died as a sacrificial lamb of God to pay for the sins of humanity, and then rose from the dead to show off his magick, is precisely that - demagoguery added by a culture that was trying to restore their original religion by propping it up with Jesus.

So my intense interest in the doctrine only proved to me that Jesus could not possible have been the son of the God of Abraham.

I might add also, that Isaac Newton also came to this very same conclusion! Which I was completely unaware of at the time. I wish they taught those FACTS in High School!

That's what we should be teaching our children - the TRUTH!

So anyway, yes, the Bible does say, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live". And the Bible is indeed extremely ambiguous. So much so that I'm in total shock at how many people continue to support and preach this totally ambiguous doctrine.

Advantages to wearing a burka:


I don't think I would mind wearing a burka, and it makes women more mysterious, hides all the flaws etc.

It would make stripping for your husband all that more exciting...

You could hold up a bank or convenience store and then just melt into the crowd.

It would be easy to sneak around with your lover, no one would recognize you.

You could be wearing a bullet proof vest and carrying an automatic weapon under there.

You could hide a pregnancy for a long time.



I'm going to start a new thread on this, so people can add their own thoughts of the advantages.

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live".

The sentence itself makes no sense. To 'suffer' is to be in pain.

It would make more sense if it said:

"Thou shalt not (allow or permit) a witch to live."

Maybe it really means:

Thou shalt not allow a witch to suffer.

Save the witches!!

Absolutely!

And often times Christians will say to me that Satan has blinded me.

That's truly an insult to God!

If a person is trying as hard as I did to do God's will then why would God just sit back and allow Satan to intervene with my FREE WILL?

My FREE WILL was to KNOW GOD and do the WILL of God!

So to claim that Satan was blinding me is the same as saying that Satan stole my FREE WILL!

Moreover, if that's what happened then I most certainly could not be blamed for something I had no FREE WILL over!

Christians try to claim that it is OUR CHOICE, and that only we can reject God, and that God never rejects anyone.

Well, if that's true then clearly the Bible is a false doctrine because I tried to accept that God with all my heart and soul and found it IMPOSSIBLE.

Therefore God would have rejected me, not the other way around.

You can't give youself over to God only to have him spit in your face. That would be a God who rejects those who are reaching out to him.

Clearly the Christians are WRONG. The Bible is FALSE. Period.



Again, ABSOLUTELY!

I feel far more connected to the divine source of all creation now than I ever did when I was trying to makes sense of the Bible.

I feel like God is my FRIEND not my enemy!

The Bible demands that God is your enemy and that you are enemy of God!

But even more profoundly it contradicts itself all the way through.

I don't care if someone wants to be a 'Christian', I have no idea what they even mean by that because the Bible is so ambigious most 'Christians' must make up their own interpretations anyway. So the very term 'Christian' has become a meaningless term to me.

I don't truly consider myself to be a 'witch' either.

But then again, I do practice 'witchcraft' so I guess technically speaking I have no choice but to confess that I'm a witch.

But it doesn't matter to me because now I know that witchcraft is indeed divine.

That depends on how many flaws you were hiding.

It might end up sending him running for the nearest divorce lawyer.

You mean I don't get to torture you into a confession?

You're so easy.

(Okay guys, go get the matches and the sticks, this one is in the bag.)

Oh wait! No, lets torture him anyway. We want him to reveal the names of all the other members of his coven.

I think the idea the authors had in mind was that a witch had supposedly soul their soul to the devil so they are suffering and allowing them to live is to allow them to continue to suffer.

But this just goes to show how utterly stupid the authors of the Bible truly were. If the witch had sold their soul to the devil then clearly they would suffer after death too. So it's a meaningless phrase.

The whole point to is is that the authors of that text at that time had enemies that they had labeled as 'witches' and they just wanted to incite as many readers as they could to go out and murder the 'withces' and feel like they were doing "God's Will".

It's pathetic is what it is.

The Bible was just that culture's way to get it's citizens to murder it's enemies using God as their excuse.