Why are atheists and agnostics under the same topic? I see agnostics as being no more like atheists than they are like overly zealous religious fanatics.

Atheists are people who don't believe in God.

Agnostics,in my eyes, are those who may believe in God but understand also that the human mind is so highly underdeveloped and/or imaginative and easily confused, as well as capable of lying and of believing things taught to it by liars, that no one could ever know with 100% certainty.

Agnostics may believe also that those who profess to know with a 100% degree of certainty that there is a God, stating it's "because their hearts and minds tell them so," could well really have been just hypnotized into believing this by their own powerful beliefs in the stories of others whose words they have chosen to believe.

I don't think any atheist should accuse religious people of being "brainwashed," thinking that they alone are not, because even disbelief itself is brainwashing of a sort.

For example, when an atheist decides he is going to go all around the world trying to convince others that the atheist way (disbelief) is the "only" sensible way people should "believe" and that all other ways are stupid and lacking in intellect, what is he doing but brainwashing others into thinking his way himself, and trying to force his beliefs on others, which is no different from the brainwashing he accuses religious people of?

the reason they're lumped together is because you have believers and non-believers.
agnostics and atheists are similar because the don't follow the majority and therefore are outcasts.

i am agnostic. i don't believe in god, but i'm not so arrogant as to say that there's no possibility of the existence of a supreme being. unlikely, IMO, but not impossible.

we humans are so new in regards to the universe around us. how could any of us claim to fathom exactly what is or isn't outside our own small world?


. . .

Well as to why the forums get placed together that is an arbitrary designation by the forum owners.

However, I feel so many get the base definitions wrong for atheist and agnostic so often it bears mentioning.

Gnosis = knowledge.

Theist = belief in a diety.


Belief =/= knowledge.

Because belief and knowledge are two different things, that means gnosticism, and theism must also be different. Not just different in the sense of different positions on the same topic, but different topics.

Agnosticism at its most fundamental is the belief that knowledge of god is not available or not possible. It is not a belief in god, but a belief in knowledge of god. The distinction bears significance.

Certainty is not even really important in this conversation, it is also a separate topic.

Being certain is a belief in the ability of your methods to obtain knowledge. So that really is a third topic.

When you are able to pull these VERY related topics apart and see how they are related yet fundamentally different you really gain a clearer picture of what it means to by atheists, theist, agnostic ect, and why there is agnostic atheists, and agnostic theists, and gnostic atheists, and gnostic theist ect.

Well then I suppose I'm not a true agnostic. I believe totally in the existence of God but don't believe that any particular religion is the "only" one or necessarily the "right" one. To me, most religions have simply been invented as a form of profit.

I believe that at the end people are judged by the ways they lived their lives versus the flag they stand under. So if not agnostic, what would I call myself?

That makes you a Deist.

Agnosticism is the belief that there is no way to prove whether or not god exists. Atheism is the belief that there is no god. Agnostics can be theistic or atheistic. Atheists, or at least the ones I know, don't care what you believe. We don't try to brainwash people into believing like we do, and for the most part just want to live our lives without being scorned for what we believe. I know that some atheists out there try to push what they believe on you, and that is certainly not right. Religion makes people ok with not knowing, and that is they key reason behind people being atheist/agnostic. Its pretty much that simple.

I believe the 2 should be separated as they are no more alike then night and day. agnostic's neither believe nor dis believe. Just my .02

If a belief is a positive acceptance of a belief, and agnostics and atheist both share a lack of that positive acceptance, then they both share a common trait.

That makes your claim that they are"no more alike then night and day" may be a bit off.

In fact agnostics are atheists actually.

Knowledge and belief are two different things. THAT is the difference.

Theism is the belief in a deity.
Atheism is a lack of belief in a deity.

Gnosticism is knowledge of the spiritual, or knowledge of a deity.
Agnosticism is a lack of knowledge of the spiritual, or lack of knowledge of a deity.

So they are closely related, but also subtly different.

I happen to be an agnostic atheist. I have no positive belief in a deity, I also do not hold a positive belief that a deity could not exist.

weather or not "god(s)" "may" be real is irrelavant, the FACTis that there is no proof, and thus no. to aurgue otherwize makes you stoop to the level of a child, there is no monster under the bed. look :)

I normally claim to be agnostic, as I don't believe in a deity.

I believe the 2 are similar in that they don't believe in a deity, but atheists seem to be an organized movement.

I have been led to believe that atheists were kind of a religion (as they are a group that believes in the same thing - no god), but just that they are very anti Christian (as the ones I always hear about want to remove anything that has to do with the Christians).

SPOILER ALERTS:

There is no god!

There is no Santa Claus!

If you don't like my statements just remember...

MY IMAGINARY FRIEND IS BIGGER THAN YOUR IMAGINARY FRIEND!!!

Peace! :)

As a child I was raised as a Protestant, going to church every Sunday for Sunday School and then for the service as I became a bit older. When I was 11 my parents let me decide if and when I would go to church; I chose to stop attending as playing outside on a warm, sunny Sunday held far more appeal than sitting uncomfortably on a hard bench trying to keep in tune with everyone else while they sang the selection of hymns. In my teen years I believed there was a God just like it said in the Bible, but when I went out into the world on my own and experienced the inhumanity of man towards man I began to doubt His existence. At one point I decided to check out other religions to see if they made more sense than the one I grew up with, but the more I investigated the more doubtful I became. It seemed that everyone believed their God was "the one and only" and theirs was "the path", yet none of them could prove that God (or Buddha or Allah, etc) actually existed. It is in my nature not to believe anything unless there is concrete, absolute, non deniable proof that it is so and this is where religion(s) and I part ways. All religions depend on a huge "leap of faith" to make the connection between the scripture and the existence of the deity. Well, I'm a prairie boy and an ex-soldier, I need proof.

Somewhere in my mid-20's I decided that I was agnostic, in that I did not believe in God but was fairly certain there was a higher force or a supreme being. To this day, I'm not sure that it manifests itself as a God and although I lean towards the "Big Bang" and Darwin's theory of evolution I'm still not totally convinced that a supreme being doesn't exist. Atheists, in my way of thinking, go a step further and believe there is no higher power, only our existence that has yet to be scientifically explained. I don't have an issue with that, as I don't have an issue with anyone who is religious, either. To each their own. So, if an online dating site decides to set up a separate category for non-believers and lumps the atheists and agnostics together, it doesn't bother me at all.

Hi You are right, there is no god. My son and I have done 10 years research about Christianity and Jesus and we are convinced without a shadow of a doubt that GOD doesn't exist. Anyone who thinks there is has not done any research at all. I refuse to believe in something I can not see, but most of all, there is a verse in the bible where Jesus sends people out to rape women and kill anything that breathes. My son has read every bible known to man and the king james and the new international verson twice, I know a lot of people who are christians or say they are who has never read the bible front to back. If anyone wants to know the verse I am talking about, just let me know and I will tell you where to find it.

Hi This is Charlene again, I am moving to Vegas in a couple of months and it would be nice to meet some Atheist single men, I don't know anyone there and it would be nice to meet some Atheist people. I am looking forward to it....smiles

[I normally claim to be agnostic, as I don't believe in a deity.]

As has already been pointed out several times, if you do not believe in a deity you are, by definition, an atheist.

I agree completely. I just discovered this topic with that question in mind. But relatively, Christians may look at us as one in the same - we aren't one of them...

Agnostic is a subset of knowledge & atheism is the subset of belief

Wrong. Atheism is the refusal to accept claims of existence of deities. Atheists do not claim nonexistence. Atheists refuse claims of existence. These are two different things.

Atheism is also lazyness. Instead of spending thousands of words explaining that all definitions of deities are invalid scientifically and/or philosophically, instead of explaining that the doubt of agnosticism can only make sense after a definition of deity which makes sense... well... we simply throw 4 words: deities do not exist.

An atheist does not believe in God... an agnostic does not give a crap!

I have better things to worry about like what I'm going to have for lunch.

Agnosticism requires a profound thought process and explanations.

Atheism is short for saying; LEAVE ME ALONE!

Willis Morgan