So, how much power should cops have to respond to someone being 'non compliant'..which can be anything from non reactive to verbally and physically resistant?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/video-shows-us-police-officer-taser-and-pepperspray-africanamerican-man-who-had-suffered-a-stroke-10274072.html



how long do we tolerate acceptance of the ' do what they say or else anything is acceptable,,,,' mindset?

Going to watch this video, I had heard about it. This though is not as bad as what happened in Cincinnati last Sunday.
To answer your question directly, we the people are at their mercy despite innocence of any wrongdoing. According to a supreme court case (sorry I don't remember which one) I think v. Chicago, concerning removal from a vehicle the Police are allowed to do that. I hope that will change. If someone is being combative with a weapon police should defend themselves WITHOUT lethal force until it becomes clear that lethal force is the only option. Being tazed or pepper sprayed in most cases leaves the suspect alive. I have been tazed and sprayed, I've been in a (CS) gas chamber and been gassed without protective gear so I know how bad it feels. I would rather be tazed and pepper sprayed than shot any day. The body cams have a flaw though, the officer that just dgaf. It's his or her discretion whether or not we are cooperating or not. This too MUST stop.

I heard it first on local news then ABC with David Muir but ABC stopped the video as the former officer drew his weapon. I didn't get to see the whole video until Don Lemmon interviewed the mother sister and Attorney. My condolences thoughts and prayers are with the Dubose family. Especially the 10 children that now have to grow up without their father. After seeing the (im going to be bleeped) punk ***** ***** *** maggot lying coward *** mother****** say that Dubose tried to run him over im ecstatic to see the Cincinnati PD not only fired him but indicted him on murder charges. That is exactly what happened. Dubose complied when asked why he didn't have a FRONT license plate politely said that he wasn't aware. The officer asked for his license, which Dubose said he didn't think he had it on him but he lived right around the corner and the officer could lead or follow him there. The officer asked again for Dubose' license as if he hadn't heard his response at all and Dubose said it's ok, you can run my name.
At this point the officer reaches for his belt, possibly opening the holster. Dubose says patting his shirt, not reaching, not turning, patting while looking at the officer, I'm sorry, I don't think I have it on me but you can run my name. The officer says you don't have your license on you? No, I don't think... The officer reaches for the door handle and says I want you to unbuckle your seatbelt. Dubose says I haven't done anything. Bang.
The officer shot him in the head once at point blank range, Dubose slumped over dead and the officer then says to the radio on his shoulder, shots fired he tried to run me over shots fired, as he is chasing the car down the street on foot from behind. Dubose who is said to have died near instantaneously after being shot was never in a position to be able to run over the officer trying to pull a polite compliant man out of his car for not having a FRONT license plate. After the shot, after the officer pulled back and took off running after the car and the deceased Dubose, was the first mention of him trying to run the officer over.

Watch the video. Keep in mind that the officer in question has been fired and is facing at the least a murder charge. In Cincinnati the protesters were joined by the Police and peacefully marched together. The family asked for peace.

Non compliance will get you killed.

Not necessarily, however, if that "noncompliance" is by a Black person, it will indeed get you killed.

Since when is non compliance warrant a execution?

America will continue to tolerate it as long as racism is tolerated within law enforcement.

What do you mean tolerate?

Peace officers must do what is needed, TO KEEP THE PEACE. I'm good with that

I've been through a situation of mistaken identity, not fun BUT
I've not heard of people getting injured or killed by cops if they comply to the demand of the officer. The point is, people should shut their cake hole and just lay there for a bit till it gets sorted, verbal & physical troublemakers are always the ones getting injured, hmmmm.


I watched the Vid GermanChocolate... the officer was amazingly polite, asked him to unbuckle as he was opening the car door, what did he mean when the driver said "I didn't do anything"? He's driving without his permit that's what he did, attempted to speed away, otherwise the car wouldn't have rolled 50yds? shots fired excessive? maybe but the officer doesn't know who he's dealing with at this point and I'm pretty sure no one would have got killed complying with "unbuckle your belt"

Well the analysis of the video is reasonably correct, but you've missed a few important things.

1) The officer seizes a pint of liquor from the victim which had been on the floor of the car. Was the officer trying to remove the victim from the car to see if he was drunk? The tape does NOT demonstrate the officer having this thought, or expressing it verbally. "Ok sir, I think you may have been drinking, can you exit the vehicle please?"
2) The officer after asking 4 or 5 times finally is told that the victim doesn't have his license on him. I'm pretty sure that driving without a license is an offense which can warrant a ticket or maybe arrest in Ohio? Failure to be immediately forthcoming tweaks the 'spidey sense' in most cops. What else is this guy hiding?
3)The officer asks the victim to take off his seatbelt and get out of the car. The victim GENTLY pulls the door closed, and proceeds to try and drive away. If the car were in park, and the engine off, the car would not have moved when he was shot. TECHNICALLY the act of closing the door after the officer opened it could be considered obstruction or resisting or refusing a lawful order.
4)The shot is fired as the victim struggles with the officer, and we have no way of knowing if he is simply trying to stay clear of the officer OR reaching for a hidden weapon. Since police training is to shoot at the PERCEIVED or CLEARLY RECOGNIZED threat, no firearms training officer is going to testify that you should wait until someone's gun is stuck in your face BEFORE you decide to fire. For example you say 'Police! Freeze!" and the suspect reaches into his jacket. There is no expectation he's reaching for an ice cream cone, care bear, or lollipop. He's reaching for a weapon. You shoot him, and it turns out he was going for a wallet. It's a typical training scenario, and in court it's a LEGALLY excusable death. The suspect made you shoot him based on his action.

The officer in this case is guilty of murder based on his report, and not his actions. I'll explain why. He lies on the paperwork, and in his radio traffic. You can't come back from that legally. At this point it doesn't matter if the victim had a machine gun in the glovebox and three kidnapped nuns in the trunk.

His LEGAL TEAM would have presented the following case.
1)Officer stops victim.
2)Officer finds liquor in plain sight.
3)Victim is evasive providing timely and truthful answers.
4)Victim resists officers command to exit the vehicle, and engages in active physical resistance.
5)Victim attempts to drive away and flee. Officer does not know if driver is drunk, and so he has a 3,000 pound weapon to threaten the public with.
6)Officer fearing for public safety, discharges his weapon.

Now as lame as you might find the logic of the argument, the issue is that the video supports that train of thought. The jury of course would ask why he didn't simply chase him in his car, call for backup,or shoot at the fleeing car? All questions that speak to reasonable doubt. Once there are multiple solutions to the problem, you now speak to the JUDGEMENT of the cop. You can fault his judgement all day long. He did what he THOUGHT was right. LEGALLY the jury would have to decide that NO REASONABLE PERSON would have arrived at the same conclusion he did in order for him to be guilty.

The bottom line is, in the scheme of the universe, it was a lousy shooting, and no one actually HAD TO DIE here. The cop however by virtue of his poor judgement, at worst would have faced a wrongful death charge like manslaughter, or the city would have faced a civil suit. By lying both in writing and on the radio call, he buys himself the murder charge.

Oh well, chit happens.

As much or as little as the law allows.
Want a different law, change the law.


What's this "we?"

What are YOU going to do about it?

How long are YOU going to "tolerate acceptance of the 'do what they say or else anything is acceptable...' mindset?"

why is it so hard to do what they say to do?

if that guy did what the cop told him, there wouldn't have been a problem...

whenever someone is pulled over by the police, they are technically "under arrest" until the cop is done doing what they're doing...


not real hard people...

hence in an earlier post when i said that if people did what the police asked/ordered them to do then it's unlikely people, black or white would be getting shot.
the people getting shot by police are getting shot because they are dumbasses who either don't realise the danger of complying or perceive it as funny or cool.

do as the cops tell you and comply then you won't get shot
it really isn't hard.

(and you wonder why brits refer to "dumb yanks")

Wrong, this man did not need to die. He was unarmed. He was not a criminal, he was not wanted, he had no warrants for anything outstanding.

The problem here is the total disregard for life when it comes to Black people.
There is great denial in this nation in regards to the racist element within law enforcement.

Whenever a nation fails to acknowledge her shortcomings, there is no way to correct it.

The racist element in law enforcement is well documented.

Non-compliance does not warrent death especially unarmed.

it's his own fault... to bad your hatred can't see reality..

I hate injustice, but I'm afraid your condition is far worst. A compassionate person who holds all life dear, you'd have a different position.

You say it's his fault, that alone sounds like you have sided with the police. Whereas that police was arrested for murder.

Hateing injustice is not adhering to racism. I simply hate injustice while those who are detached are comfortable with it. Afterall, kops, Black or white don't kill unarmed whites.

well, if you don't wanna get shot or tased by the "black hating 'kops'", i suggest compliance would be the best answer...

Wrong!! The best answer is radical reform for law enforcement.
No one unarmed should be sentenced to death on the spot under any circumstances.

You HATE the fact that a killer kop was arrested and has a million dollar bail. Good, im sure this makes you unhappy, but I'm more concerned for the family of this murder victim.

The kop was wrong and that's why he is presently in jail wearing the uniform he desearves.

..............and they are off again.....................

wth are you talking about? no one went to jail, cept the black dude...

Cincinnati policeman Ray Tensing for killing a Black unarmed man named Samual Dubose. A clear case of murder.