the two cannot be seperated,,,,its about both,, overall police brutality which disproportionately impacts the black and the poor ( who are disproportionately black people)

since 1986, we have alot more 'hispanic' here to dilute those percentages, and blacks being killed also blurs the debate of UNARMED blacks being killed compared to UNARMED (anoyone else)

after all if someone, black white or other, is pointing a gun at an officer or in the course of a deadly assualt their being 'shot' is different than if someone is unarmed and trying to 'resist' an arrest without arms is shot,,,,or strangled,,,etc,,,

lumping all the killing into one group isnt reflecting what this protest is about,,

this protest? what is this protest about? looting and robbing and hurting others, then blaming the cops for doing what they are paid to do? maybe these "innocent" thugs could move to your neighborhood instead of the cops killing them, and you can deal with them better than the cops...

not a big question in my book... he had to have it in his hand to throw it away... if he would have just stood there and put his hands up(like he was directed to do), he wouldn't have been shot...

the protest is about when cops are making LIFE TAKING decisions and now held accountable for it,,,,

the jails are full of people who have looted, robbed, or hurt others

as they should be

whether the GRAVES should be full of any and all guilty of some non fatal criminal activity should be is a different thing altogether

really? and who gets to decide how LONG it should take between the comand and the action before it warrants death?

should one have just a millisecond before they are shot?
should they have two seconds, three?

we should continue allowing a fearful and easily threatened cop/person make that choice and be justified?

Actually, even as a civilian, if someone is pointing a weapon at me, I dont have to give any commands or wait at all.
If I, or any bystander is at risk of death or great bodily harm, I can shoot.
A LEO has even looser restrictions on the use of justifiable deadly force....you know, justifiable deadly force...what the state of Missouri and even Eric Holder deemed to be the case for Darren Wilson.

I wasnt addressing having a gun pointed , I was addressing merely being in possession of a gun, which is a treasured 'right',, If Im not mistaken ....


if one has a gun, which person decides how long they have to either discard the gun or raise their hands?

should it be a millisecond, two seconds, three, ? should it be at any point the hand moves with the gun(which is necessary to drop it OR to raise ones hands)

if the gun is legal to carry,, what then will serve as enough 'threat' to shoot someone carrying it?

By all reports so far....and maybe something else will come later, th latest teen killed pointed his weapon at cops....but Ill attempt to answer your question from my perspective. I have a CCL....and if Im questioned by a cop for any reason, the FIRST thing Im gonna do is tell him I have a CCL and that Im carrying.....and then Im gonna tell him hes more than welcomed to remove my weapon before he continues questioning me.

If its just me and another citizen carrying a weapon that I can see, Im gonna make a quick exit if possible and alert the authorities. I will say that alot will depend on the exact circumstances though. Your presented scenario is vague.

Again, vague...

Time makes no difference....its whether a threat is perceived. And if someone is stupid enough to reach for a handgun while in the presence of a cop, even if it is to hand it over, he needs to be removed from the gene pool.
A cop will attempt to secure the person first, then he will remove the weapon himself.

See my first answer....I will alert the officer that Im carrying and allow him to remove the weapon...while not presenting myself to be a threat..but hey, Im a law abiding citizen...not a thug running from a dope house, who knows how their minds work. Dont make yourself look like a threat and youll live to fight the case in court, if you so choose.

thats the problem, young black men too often, look like a 'threat' just because they are young black men,,,

Or, maybe, they look like a threat because they are one. Ill give you that there are some exceptions, and Ill surprise you even more by saying that some of these small depts could use more training....but, in the case of Mike Brown, Tyrone Harris, and this latest one, Bail-Bey, they aint no exceptions.
I also would like to see some of these small depts, i.e., Ferguson, become more diverse. But damn, some of these young black men need to quit screwing up in their younger years so they can be eligible for these police dept jobs.
You may have the last word, Im, frankly, bored of the subject ATM....(Like I didnt know you wanted the last word )

last word is we agree

there is plenty of responsibility to go around , black lives matter addresses the responsibility of the SYSTEM/POLICE

plenty of those black men who are 'screwing' up are incarcerated or dead, so there arent many other ways to address the SYSTEM regarding them

families can do more

and so can the system

maybe try not look like a threat? dress like a thug, your noticeable... blending in has it's virtues...



when i was a teenager, cops noticed me because i dressed like the thugs of the 80's, long hair, fast car, dressed like a something from an 80;s hair band.... i got pulled over 2 or 3 times a week...

my whole point is that color doesn't matter, it's what the cops thinks they see you as... if they feel your not a threat, most of the time they leave you alone...


cops have bad days just like anyone else, and they can take it out on anyone they want, so try not to give them a reason...

not many suspicious people wear suits and office wear

but blacks who are casually dressed are much more likely to be seen as a 'threat' than their counterparts

clothes dont make one dangerous, only their action can do that

probably, but it's up to the person being detained to be nice or not...

But isnt that because crime rates are generally higher in these communities? And not just petty crimes, but violent, senseless ones...

Black is not the issue i am pointing out towards since i know a similar problem faces some hispanic communities as well...

Poor also isnt the issue i am referring to, because any ethnic or even majority group has that anywhere in the world, but rather what people choose to do when they are poor. It is not uncommon that people in lower socioeconomic groups are high risk to turn to violent crimes and illegal activities, brought about by lack of education and proper guidance. But many groups, having started out as poor, ignorant and marginalized have also been successful at policing themselves from entering these said activities.

What i am saying is that there are communities that have a gang mentality (not the same as organized crime rings) and view law enforcement as the target enemy. When they look at themselves as the oppressed ( whether true or not ), and justify guns and violence as a means to gain power and control in this set-up, the individuals living in these communities become the victims of their own self-fulfilling ideals.

My questions...
Are these communities actually being actively oppressed without cause? Or did they make the situation for themselves, to begin with?
How should law enforcers defend themselves legitimately in these communities?

not me or you... but i imagine it's the same for everyone, the will/right to live... cops have a right to protect their lives as well as anyone else...

----------------------------------------------------
Brilliant analysis

Federal Bureau of Investigation 2013

* Which Is The Latest Report , Sorry The charts/ graft is not copying, *

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43#disablemobile/

* Please copy link to brower, for whatever reason, Mingle2 is not allowing the link. It is working on on sites *

Anyone who wants to see it can easily figure it out. Crimes committed by all races & type of crime. Along with the percentages of each race. And race ratio vs crime.
It is also divided my adult, juvenile, arrests & incarnation.

From link...
Arrests, by Race, 2013
In 2013, 68.9 percent of all individuals arrested were white, 28.3 percent were black, and 2.9 percent were of other races.
Of all juveniles (persons under the age of 18) arrested in 2013, 63.0 percent were white, 34.4 percent were black, and 2.7 percent were of other races.
Of all adults arrested in 2013, 69.6 percent were white, 27.6 percent were black, and 2.9 percent were of other races.
White individuals were arrested more often for violent crimes than individuals of any other race and accounted for 58.4 percent of those arrests.
Of adults arrested for murder, 52.1 percent were black, and 45.5 percent were white.
Black juveniles comprised 53.3 percent of all juveniles arrested for violent crimes. White juveniles accounted for 59.7 percent of all juveniles arrested for property crimes.
Of juveniles arrested for drug abuse violations, 73.0 percent were white.
White juveniles comprised 54.4 percent of juveniles arrested for aggravated assaults.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/tables/table-43

Paste this into your browser....the clickable link isnt coming up right for whatever reason

Figure it out....Im halfway into a good bourbon and my technilogical skills are waning atm

You are brilliant as well for acknowledging it.