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Topic: The Spooky New Face Of Anti -Semitism

mightymoe

Sun 11/01/15 08:54 AM

Hate is not created in a vacumn. Did israel PM not just stand up and say it was a "muslim" that wanted the holocaust. Not hitler. Theres no doubt israel stirs the hate also.

of course. hate begets hate... when the rest of the world shows so much hate towards Israel, they get tired of it...

lots of people like you only see the returned hate, not the original hate that starts it..

JOHNN111

Sun 11/01/15 09:09 AM

"Israel is refusing to return the bodies of Palestinians killed during a month-old surge of violence unless the Palestinian side agrees to keep their funerals "modest", the Israeli defence minister said on Sunday."

Say what??? noway

Yes, they should sit back while the IDF destroys their family homes too?

mightymoe

Sun 11/01/15 09:14 AM

Yes, they should sit back while the IDF destroys their family homes too?

no, they should quit killing Israelis... then they would have less funerals...

msharmony

Sun 11/01/15 09:33 AM

find it amazing how anyone decides which side has cause to feel how they feel in this situation

imagine if all the countries of the UN got together and decided Mexicans should be able to 'return' to Nevada and all the current nevadans could be relocated to camps in Pahrump,, which would be under constant surveillance and whose citizens would be deemed as 'anti mexican' if they in any way revolted or fought the decision,,,,lol

I doubt americans would be fond of that 'agreement' or the people who carried it out,,,

Conrad_73

Sun 11/01/15 09:47 AM

Apples and Oranges!

msharmony

Sun 11/01/15 09:53 AM

that's like saying 'no offense' after an offensive statement

meaningless response

people were displaced FORCEFULLY to build homes for another 'more valued' people

its humans and humans,,,,,,and not 'apples and oranges'

Edited by msharmony on Sun 11/01/15 09:54 AM

1onlyaname

Sun 11/01/15 09:48 AM

Disagree West Bank n Gaza have every right to revolt. No american or israeli would live under those conditions!!!!! The world knows Hamas was all bull crap with bull crap bottle rockets. The West Bank n Gaza people have lost all hope for a decent life. Israel has lost world respect and they can blame themselves for that.

JOHNN111

Sun 11/01/15 09:57 AM

Yes, they should sit back while the IDF destroys their family homes too?

no, they should quit killing Israelis... then they would have less funerals...

This is debatable, these knife attacks occurred in occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem on soldiers or settlers.

"Settlers" in occupied territories... ignoring that reality again? you seem to ignore this injustice often. Settling in occupied territories SHOULD be hazardous to the safety of Israelis. Yes this is my position. This is what Abbas got for being peaceful with Netanyahus Israel.

Oh and Harper was removed rather unceremoniously because of his attempts at creating division within our country, he obviously didn't represent the majority of Canadians with his views on Israel.

He did get some bird sanctuary in Israel named after him, how appropriate, a bird sanctuary for his efforts in pushing along the Israeli war machine.

:thumbsup:

1onlyaname

Sun 11/01/15 09:59 AM

Hate is not created in a vacumn. Did israel PM not just stand up and say it was a "muslim" that wanted the holocaust. Not hitler. Theres no doubt israel stirs the hate also.

where's the power who is suppressing who??? Is israel being suppressed??? So where is tbe original hate??

Conrad_73

Sun 11/01/15 10:02 AM

yep,they really care whether you like them or not! :laughing:

Funny though,that their Birthrate is at an absolute high!
Something wrong with your equation!

Conrad_73

Sun 11/01/15 10:03 AM

Hate is not created in a vacumn. Did israel PM not just stand up and say it was a "muslim" that wanted the holocaust. Not hitler. Theres no doubt israel stirs the hate also.

where's the power who is suppressing who??? Is israel being suppressed??? So where is tbe original hate??

not much on History,are you?

Conrad_73

Sun 11/01/15 10:09 AM

When does anti-Zionism become anti-Jewish hatred?

Philip Mendes

The question as to whether Anti-Zionism and Anti-Semitism are one and the same thing inevitably correlates with attitudes to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Those who lean towards the Greater Israel end of the spectrum are more likely to answer yes, whilst those who favour the Greater Palestine solution are more likely to answer no. As a long-time supporter of Israel but also of two states for two peoples, I sit close to the middle of these two spectrums, and hence my response to the question is necessarily a complex one. That is yes and no.

Historically, anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism were two separate ideologies. Anti-Semitism is a racist prejudice that exists independently of any objective reality. It is not about what Jews actually say or do, but rather about what anti-Semites falsely and malevolently attribute to them. As reflected in anti-Semitic conspiracy theories such as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, it is a subjective stereotyping based on notions of collective Jewish guilt.

In contrast, anti-Zionism (particularly prior to the creation of the State of Israel) was based on a relatively objective assessment of the prospects of success for some Jews in Israel/Palestine. Opposition came from both Jews and the international Left.

However, in recent decades anti-Zionist fundamentalism and anti-Semitism have increasingly converged.

Of course, left-wing attacks on Zionism and Israel incorporating anti-Jewish prejudice are different to the traditional anti-Semitism of the far Right. They constitute a form of political, rather than racial anti-Semitism. And most of their key proponents deny being anti-Semites. Nevertheless, this group arguably create an anti-Jewish discourse and the potential for an openly anti-Semitic movement by demonising all Israeli Jews and all Jewish supporters of Israel as the political enemy.

Today, there are arguably three principal Left positions on Zionism and Israel.

One perspective, which can broadly be called pro-Israel, is balanced in terms of favouring a two-state solution, and supporting moderates and condemning extremists and violence on both sides. This is a minority position, but is held by a number of centre-left leaders such as the current Australian Labor Party Prime Minister Julia Gillard.

A second perspective endorses a two-state solution in principle, but in practice holds Israel principally or even solely responsible for the continuing violence and terror in the Middle East. This position, which probably represents the majority of the western Left, is held by many social democrats, Greens and trade unions.

The third Left perspective I have called anti-Zionist fundamentalism because it is akin to religious fundamentalism. This view, which is held mainly but no longer exclusively by far Left groups, regards Israel as a racist and colonialist state which has no right to exist. Adherents hold to a viewpoint opposing Israel's existence specifically and Jewish national rights more broadly which is beyond rational debate, and unconnected to contemporary or historical reality.

The anti-Zionist fundamentalist discourse quickly decays into openly anti-Jewish rhetoric. Firstly, there is a pathological and obsessive hatred and demonisation of Israel unrelated to the actual actions and reality of that State. These include absurd claims that Israel is the world's worst human rights abuser, or that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinians.

Secondly, there are proposals for academic and other boycotts of Israel based on the ethnic stereotyping of all Israelis. The aim of such caricatures is to impose pariah status on the whole Israeli nation. These proposals single out Israelis in that no such boycotts are proposed against other countries or nations involved in territorial expansion or human rights abuses.

Thirdly, there is the extension of the denunciation of all Jewish Israelis to all Jews Zionist or otherwise who are supportive of Israel's existence. These Jews are collectively denounced via group libel as accomplices of racism and genocide whatever their actual ideological and political position on solutions to the conflict.

Fourthly, there are stereotypical descriptions of Jewish behaviour, and attacks on alleged Jewish global power, wealth and influence. Conspiracy theorists accuse Jews of controlling western governments, finance and the media; planning the 9/11 attacks; and responsibility for the US-led war in Iraq. Finally, deliberate attempts are made to diminish and trivialise the extent of Jewish suffering in the Holocaust by comparing Jews with Nazis. These analogies do not appear to be used in regards to any other international conflicts, and seem to be motivated solely by a desire to offend and hurt Jews.

This convergence of anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism was particularly apparent during the recent debate over the attempted introduction of a Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) policy by Marrickville Council. Three particular developments are worth noting.

Many local BDS proponents either seem to be ignorant of the real aims of the international BDS campaign, or alternatively are deliberately hiding their real views. They deny being anti-Israel, and in some cases, even claim to be pro-peace and supportive of a two-state solution. Yet the leading Palestinian proponents of BDS such as Omar Barghouti openly admit that they do not seek an end to the occupation to facilitate a peaceful two-state solution, but rather the demonisation of all Israeli Jews and the elimination of Israel. In his new book, BDS: Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions: The global struggle for Palestinian Rights (Haymarket Books, Chicago, 2011), Barghouti even vilifies Palestinian moderates and Israeli leftists who support a peaceful two-state solution, rather than the destruction of Israel. The key statement distributed by the Palestinian Campaign for Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel in July 2004 is also crystal clear that the first and foremost priority is to reverse the events of 1948 that lead to the Palestinian refugee tragedy, whereas ending the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip in 1967 is only identified as a secondary task.

In addition, BDS proponents malevolently exploit the willingness of self-denying Jews to vilify their own people. The BDS campaign has tapped into the long history of radical Left anti-Semitism whereby a small number of unrepresentative token Jews (some would call them 'Uncle Toms' but I prefer the term 'self-denying' Jews since they deny any feeling of solidarity with other Jews who are oppressed or attacked) are opportunistically encouraged to exploit their own religious and cultural origins in order to vilify their own people.

The radical Left would never employ such techniques against other historically oppressed groups. Yet during the Marrickville BDS debate this offensive and ridiculous misrepresentation of Jewish views was prominent. For example, Lee Rhiannon claimed that many Jewish communities support this work. In fact, no Jewish communities support the BDS, and the only Jewish community group in Marrickville, the Inner West Jewish Community and Friends Peace Alliance which is left-oriented and strongly supportive of a two-state solution, devoted considerable time and resources to opposing the Marrickville BDS proposal.

The only prominent local Jewish supporter of the BDS is Antony Loewenstein, who uses the term 'Zionist' as a form of abuse, and who has called for a public inquiry into the alleged power and influence of the Jewish lobby in Australia.

Finally, the debate exposed the increasing capture of academic and media journals and institutions by the powerful pro-Palestinian lobby. This lobby now controls the Middle East policy of journals such as Overland, Arena, New Matilda and Crikey.com, the academic centre known as the Sydney University Centre for Peace and Conflict Studies, the NSW Greens, and a number of trade unions such as the NSW Teachers Federation which support the BDS. These organisations fanatically exclude alternative left-wing views defending Israel's existence.

Philip Mendes is the co-editor of Jews and Australian Politics, Sussex Academic Press

I know it's a lot to read, but this article helps put the attitudes of many into perspective.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2733944.html

1onlyaname

Sun 11/01/15 10:17 AM

exactly someone has violated some agreements.Gaza has been known as thee largest concentration camp for decades. Hell israel even rations gaza food like a prison. Israel bringing hate on themsleves. You can bash russia bash china bash syria but a "crime to bash israel?

Conrad_73

Sun 11/01/15 10:22 AM

you need to do some serious catching up on History,Old Son!
Especially relatively recent History!

Edited by Conrad_73 on Sun 11/01/15 10:25 AM

Conrad_73

Sun 11/01/15 10:35 AM

http://cnsnews.com/commentary/walter-e-williams/western-anti-semitism

Omega_Supreme

Sun 11/01/15 10:54 AM

I'm reading a fantastic book on this subject: "The Closing of the American Mind". The premise is that Americans (and people all over the Western world) have been taught to value tolerance to the exclusion of all other virtues. The end result is that people are more likely to choose the wrong side in a fight, just because they are the underdog and we should be tolerant of them.

I'm a Zionist and completely support the state of Israel. If the Palestinians wanted peace, they'd have it. If they wanted prosperity, it's there to be had.

JOHNN111

Sun 11/01/15 01:17 PM

This is false, Netanyahu, at the 11th hour, when he knew he was losing the elections, declared publicly that there would be no peace agreement under his watch. He has NOT made Israel a safer place to live.

It is not my fight, I'm not choosing sides... but someone is prospering from this conflict and it sure ain't the Palestinians, fooey!

and just a side note on Roger Waters... This brilliant musical and theatrical genius has incorporated his disgust of oppressive powers in his art throughout his musical career, he boycotts Israeli goods from occupied territories, this is noble and quite brave of him considering the dark forces controlling the music industry, I like his style and I support his views on the subject... Nobody should profit from seized land.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMhfbmWMYzI&index=29&list=PL17-5ZxrCYl1_idym-N8dPnas3HvWhoOQ

Edited by JOHNN111 on Sun 11/01/15 01:44 PM

Conrad_73

Sun 11/01/15 01:26 PM

it's actually because Netanyahu knows the type of Thug Abbas really is!
Have a look,and read some of the Incitements by him!
Even though you have no "Dog In The Race"! laugh

msharmony

Sun 11/01/15 05:50 PM

for me , these are two separate issues

yes, I agree that we lose the balance between tolerance and OTHER virtues when we teach one to the near exclusion of the others

yes, people choose the 'wrong' side for many reasons,, but mostly because those who presume to be on the 'right' side say so

we have an advantage and a disadvantage in the way we have so much media at our immediate access,, but the media also is often times 'slanted' towards whichever corporations or agendas are paying their bills

so , on the issue of Palestine and Israel, I don't pick a side,,,because I figure what we get mostly in usa is PRO Israel to the exclusion of all other perspectives which may not be any less reasonable or 'right',,,,

I do choose to understand human nature though, and as I said before, I don't imagine people anywhere would be forcefully uprooted from their home and consider those responsible to be much else but an enemy, by default

just in America, people gripe and groan that their tax money may be helping children eat or non working people have a roof over their head

imagine if it wasn't just taxes and they were made to just HAND over their home to them and go live in a camp?

,, it would never happen, it would be all out war,,,

1onlyaname

Sun 11/01/15 06:45 PM

When I read up on it. Read about Hamas being rich dudes living in Qatar. The missles these rich guys fire at israel. Nothing made sense. Those missles are harmless no explosives just big bottle rockets no range no one knows where they might land. Hmmm those things are not anexcuse to bomb the crap out of anyone. The more I read about Israel control over Gaza. Only thing I can believe israel is the responsible party being the occupier. Israel does an incredibly horrible job running the Gaza prison. Then Gaza has Abbas a wealthy president of a prison. What power does he have??? None no military no weapons the only thing he can do is whatever israel lets him do. The only solution I can think of is Israel purchases Gaza for a fair price set those people free.

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