I don't think I need to post any specific articles regarding prison reform to have most people agree that it is a serious issue and needs to happen. But what I am curious about is how would you reform it? Without violating current laws and constitutional requirements, name three things you would change and how you would change them. Also explain WHY you would change them please.
In my case it would be as follows:


1: Make Marijuana legal across the board (Federally). not just medical marijuana, but full personal recreational use. Follow Colorado's example of regulating it and taxing it, but make it legal.

The reason for this, is no matter what anybody says or does, marijuana simply is NOT any more dangerous than a cigarette. We definitely need to have similar laws as alcohol in regards to operating a vehicle while under the influence and make it for adults only, but there is absolutely no reason to have it be illegal, and definitely no reason for our prisons to be filled to the bursting point with people who had such little amounts on them.


2. Child Support: Stop basing child support off of a persons individual income and base it off what it costs to raise a child to age 18 in that state. Every state is required to provide information on how much it costs each year to raise a child to age 18. So if the parents are not together, you make BOTH parents responsible for HALF of the cost of raising their child to 18.

let's say it costs me $100,000 in 2016 to raise a child to 18. Divide that by 18 years and you have $5,555.555555556 as your yearly cost per child. now divide that by 12 months and you have $462.96 per month. Divide that by two (one half per parent) and you have $231.48 per month that BOTH parents are responsible for providing, regardless of income. Working 7.43 hours per week at $7.25 (Federal minimum wage) would meet this number.
Now, in 2017 let's say it costs $200,000 to raise a child to 18. $200,000 divided by 18, divided by 12 divided by 2 equals $462.96 per parent. If one of the parents wants the child(ren) to have more, they have to provide it, not the other parent.


3. I would make a law that mandates the punishment be fitting of the crime whenever possible, with jail/prison being used only if a legally suitable punishment can not be found or agreed upon. For example:

You get arrested for shoplifting groceries because you can not afford to buy them. instead of throwing them in jail, making them lose whatever little income they may or may not have and causing even more hardship for their family (and them, when they get out), put them to work for the community. We used to have what was classified as "public works" jobs; street cleaner, park cleaner, pruning of public trees and plants, etc. Bring all of those back and put the convicted shoplifter to work at minimum wage for a certain amount of time based on their theft, with minimum being 6 months. That's 40 hours per week at minimum wage, Monday thru Friday. This serves so many different purposes it isn't funny, but to name a few immediately: cleans up the public areas in each city. Does not put a hardship on the citizens in regards to providing jail room for someone who does not need to be in jail. It HELPS the shoplifter get income for 6 months so they can eat and feed their family. It gives them honost work experience which will make getting another job after those 6 months (or however long) of working for the city.

I don't think I need to post any specific articles regarding prison reform to have most people agree that it is a serious issue and needs to happen.

'Prison reform? ' Is that like Obama saying ' Immigration reform ' ?



With ALL the hundreds of thousands of criminals.. Citizens & NON citizens/ Illegal aliens, he has RELEASED back out on the street
* lots of my links already out here on forums *

I certainty am not concerned about an American weekend dad who is broke & spending the little he has playing Cheech & Chong.

Cheech and Chong: Up in Smoke Funniest Scene Uncut: http://youtu.be/kCXqbjo6cb0/ 09:17


Hell.. Build more prisons, bring back the death penalty, ship the illegals out ASAP, build a wall, prosecute the criminal politicians. Stop taking in immigrants & refugees........
Until we clean up this mess & take care of our own people & country

It will NEVER happen
.

yep,Mussolini's,Hitler's and Stalin's Umerziehungs-Lagers!
Can you say GULAG?

Well I think work instead of going to prison when you commit a crime is a reward not a punishment so sorry I am not going to support putting people out in the community to work at work that is already scarce enough for people who want to do it for an honest wage. .

Very few people steal food for any other purpose than to sell it for tobacco, drugs, or alcohol. And because they are too lazy to apply for food stamps, go to a food bank, or cook. Or heaven for bid actually grow even a minimum of a container garden. And I am tired of having the price of what they do steal added onto the price of what I pay for.


And I am tired of so called petty criminals, who refuse to work, refuse to try to seek out or accept resources, and still expect three hots and a cot and better medical care than many who work get. Often free job training when they ditched high school. .

I am against legalizing marijuana simply from the fact of living around it is a major burden for those of us who find the stench of it growing, drying, and being smoked intolerable and the fact that the more adults you have using it the more children you will have using it and I see very few cases where a child consuming it is in their best interest if from no other reason but brain development. I have yet to see a stoner that was motivated or a dependable employee. What I do see is them pontificating on their rights rather than meeting their responsibilities.

What I would like to see in prison reform is the realization of who we have in our prisons today are not poor little innocents that swiped a lollipop. Most of them by the time they get any real prison time are habitual thieves, drug trafficker's, gangbangers. rapists, child abusers, and convicted violent felons. Many are in fact murderers. Sadly many are retarded, mentally ill, and disabled even addicted but that does not negate their crimes which destroy property values, collapse businesses, and make us unsafe and unable to enjoy our communities. I am tired of taking care of what I have and coming home or even having my home invaded by those who think what I have is theirs anytime they want it.

I am more inclined to lock people up for their entire sentence and make it where if you do commit a crime you have to pay for your food, medical, and shelter on top of all the related costs. If you are unwilling to work at an internal prison job then you don't eat. And It should not be more expensive to keep someone in jail than what we provide law abiding citizens. You can not tell me we do not have the technology to control the prison populations better than we do. If you get yourself locked up an all you have is a sixth grade education when you go in then that is what you should come out with. Any one that throws away their time at free public educations don't deserve alternatives. Do I think school attendance should be MANDATORY you bet. And any retailer, parent, employer that allows it should be prosecuted. Including the state when they allow state wards to skip school.

You want prison reform then you need to reform the schools, the foster care system and the juvenile medical and homeless care systems. No child in a developed world should be sleeping on the streets and or they should not be allowed to be shuttled around like a bag of potatoes for their parents convenience. We have plenty of public land and even land that could be taken by immanent domain in every community to have children's dormitory's where they could stay stable. Parent have a kid they should have to support the kid first and themselves second. Parents want to divorce fine let them move in and out; not the kids.

I think we need to stop all aid to those countries who do not pay for the incarceration of their citizens if they get arrested and convicted in our country.

these are great suggestions, well thought out

I especially like giving people honest work experience which inspires self respect and value which I believe is the logical way to truly reduce the chance of getting stuck in repetitive crime,,,

This is a personal opinion and it is not even close to being factual. However, if you have anything that backs up this statement I would be happy to see it ;-)



Again a personal opinion with no basis of factuality (is that even a word? lol)



you say it is a major burden for those living around it to have to smell it... Well, I am sorry but you have the right to live where ever you want, as does every other (unless restricted by the court for past offenses) citizen and this means your right does not trump their's. So if you find it intolerable, the burden is on you to find some place else to live; just as I do not have the right to expect the neighbors in my community to keep their kids on a leash (figuratively speaking, I do NOT believe in leashes for kids lol).

You also claim that if more adults use it, then more kids will use it. I strongly suggest you look at reports on how the legalization of marijuana is affecting Colorado (I will try and find a specific article I was reading the other day for you). You will find that the theory that it will increase in use with kids has been debunked.

You also say you have yet to see a stoner who is a motivated or dependable employee. Again, I refer you to Colorado and their findings. Yes there are A FEW people who will overuse it. That is why you regulate it and treat it the same as tobacco and / or alcohol. But there will ALWAYS be those who abuse something (like the person who overindulges on chocolate. But hte simple HISTORY and facts will show you that motor vehicle accidents that involve drugs or alcohol have never been found to include those who are high on marijuana (or to be so limited as to be non existent).

Here is a link to who is REALLY in our prisons as of November of last year...
You will find y\that what you stated is very much wrong. And if you dig in a little bit further and look into what is listed under each type of crime (for example sex crimes) you will find many that should not even be there.

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp


In regards to having to serve your entire sentence, I agree completely. I also believe that you should not be able to plea bargain to a lighter offense. I also agree with work farms (watch for a related post regarding work farms for those behind on child support) for prisoners to grow their own food, etc. You are also right that it should not cost us more to incarcerate someone (outside of the costs of prosecuting them of course).

With that said though one thing you are very much dead wrong in believing (unless I misunderstand you which I don't think I do) is the idea that prisoners should basically be in an 3x5 cell with nothing to do other than work in the prison farms and that they should have no way to improve themselves while in prison. prison used only for punitive actions will do NOTHING except make the person a worse criminal when they get out because they will get out and have absolutely nothing to do in regards to gaining employment and making an honest life for themselves. They will have no skills (generally speaking) and be unable to get a job and will thus return to breaking the law and end up back in prison. Prison HAS, no NEEDS to be rehabilitative as well or we may as well just lock the person who robs a convenience store up for the rest of their life.

In reghards to school being mandatory it is mandatory in every single state, generally from age 5 through age 16 and all states have truancy laws (though they ARE unenforced in many places, I admit).




I do not disagree at all with any of this needing to be done, nor that it would help reduce those in prison. HOWEVER it will not stop the problem that is happening right now, which is that prisons are not government facilities any more. They are private businesses that DEPEND on more and more prisoners being locked up AND KEPT LOCKED UP (and yes htis has been PROVEN several times now).

Finally, I am sorry but we can not hold another COUNTRY liable for the actions of one or two of it's citizens. If we did then every time someone from Alaska committed a crime, say in Tennessee, then YOUR taxes should be increased to help pay for his detention in Tennessee.

In the end, our best option is rehabilitation for those who can be rehabilitated. For those who can not, and are too violent to release, I say create another Australia. Place it inside the daily patrol of the United States Navy; have it a complete no fly and no ship zone, anyone found in the skys or the seas is shot down without warning. The prisoners are escorted to the island via the Navy and left there to fend for themselves. The problem with that though is it is considered cruel and unusual punishment which is not constitutionally allowed :(

The best way to reduce the possibility of a repeat offender is to give them a reason to stop. If you throw them in prison without any way to better themselves, release them with no way to get a job once they are released, they are GOING to go back to whatever put them in jail, and they will slowly get more and more dangerous. We need to teach them while they are in; teach them SKILLS (I am not saying let someone get a law degree while they are in jail, but they COULD get training and experience in mechanics, carpentry and other construction, etc). If you treat the training like an apprenticeship program, then they are also earning their keep at the same time, reducing the cost to tax payers. When they get out, they have experience in a skill and should be able, with a little help from the parole system, to find a job with a local union, which normally starts out paying $10 and more for general non-skilled labor. This will give them a decent income so they can afford a decent apartment and eventually even purchase their own place. They will have self respect, like you said and no reason to return to the life of crime.

its funny, my mom who managed thousands during her career in finance,,, has been saying the same thing for years,, the cost effectiveness of putting non violent criminals to work instead of in the criminal factory we call prison,,,,

Mom is a smart lady ;-) I would ALSO like to see the return of a judge (legally) being able to offer military service for certain non violent crimes (like perpetual shoplifting). Mandatory 4 year enlistment as a pvt (in regards to the army). While serving those four years you can not attain any higher rank than PFC. After the four years you may reenlist if you choose and then you are eligible for further promotion. If you do not accept the offer or if you get discharged early (other than for medical reasons) you go to jail and serve the full time. I would also say that if you accept and serve those four years honorably, then at the end of them, whether you reenlist or not, your record is expunged.

awesome

Oh I see, treat vermin with kid gloves, feel sorry for them and hope they'll be sincere with their words.

Bring back hard labour and treat them for what they are, scumbags in most cases.

When you are born in the west you have every chance of making a good life for yourself and being a nice member of society. As far as I see it, if you don't, you deserve nothing, especially pity like you seem to be offering.

there is a theory that goes like this

if you tell someone over and over they are nothing, they will eventually believe it and perpetuate it


many 'vermin' are actually human beings capable of change, but not likely to ever realize it or believe it so long as the only opportunity or identity they are permitted to have is as 'vermin'

Like I said, if you are born in the west then you have no excuse, in the vast majority of cases anyway.

Feed them bread and water, hard labour and teach them a proper lesson.

I seem to recall being grounded in my room was a pretty big 'lesson',, but I wasn't labeled negatively the rest of my life after, degraded while in my room with complete obfuscation of any self identity, and continuously punished and degraded after alleged 'lesson' was over,,,


lessons are not JUST FOR PUNITIVE reasons, lessons should also help an individual do BETTER in the future

Hang 'Em High Theme : http://youtu.be/0gscut1p4kY/

Did anyone except me, notice that none of the opening posts proposals have anything at all to do with Prison Reform?

Changing WHY people go to prison, has nothing to do with prison itself.

well, if reform is 'change'

a change to who is in prison is a prison 'reform'

I respectfully disagree, and I suspect that anyone IN prison, or who has been in prison, or who has even visited a prison, would disagree with you as well.

Maybe I'm being picky, but I would have titled this thread as being about LEGAL reform, for clarity sake.

I would say that we need Prison Reform, AND we need Legal Reforms, both. Some of what the OP suggested are good ideas, which I agree with.

By making it my job and studying what the actual problem is.
Then, hire a bunch of other people who know what they're doing and focus them on the problem.
Then figure out the budget and legal requirements necessary to enact change.


This presumes I know everything about prisons, the prison system, criminal life, and criminal law.
I don't.
So any 3 things I choose are just completely out of my butt and ultimately meaningless except as personal opinion unless I were to know everything in detail other than from news stories.

So...3 things I would change (without violating current laws and constitutional requirements) create more job opportunities, reduce income and wealth disparity, and focus on making people shiny and happy.

As to how I would do that...well...

I could say things like this:

But that wouldn't really reform anything, except take away the stigma from drug use. Remember how hard it was to get kids and people to believe drugs were bad (just say no, this is your brain on drugs any questions, I learned it by watching you, "drugs are bad, m'kay," all more humorous than effective).

Marijuana use or distribution charges are not a significant contributor to the prison population. Less than 2% of it.
Of course, that's a statistic, and I know how important on a dating site forum it is to cite sources
https://www.ncjrs.gov/ondcppubs/publications/pdf/whos_in_prison_for_marij.pdf

But that was stupid of me to do.
Because it most likely will just lead to a bad statistic battle.
There are federal statistics showing the negative impact of marijuana legalization in Colorado and Washington, and there are state statistics that show a positive effect of marijuana legalization.

So, find the statistics that you want to believe.
But I would never say absolutely make marijuana legal as a means to reform prison. It wouldn't do anything to prison as a whole.

I could also say something like this:

but I wouldn't. Especially in a forum about prison reform?
Because it's too vague and not well thought out.
Especially for a forum thread about prison reform.
It presumes that 1. All kids are the same. 2. That all kids parents have access to the same resources. 3. that all kids parents have the same ability to access resources. 4. There is no distinction or difference in class (middle class, poverty, upper class).
5. No one lives in more than one state, or there are no multi state parents. 6. All responsibility towards children ends at 18, even though they stay on your insurance until they're, what, 25 now.
Among other things. 7. State defined money/debt slavery is not any better than prison. Which is what would happen if the state defined how much each person owes to the raising of their child based on standards and statistics set by the state. When it's based on income, it's based on what parents can provide and generally would in any case.
Among many other things.

Or I could say something like this:

But I wouldn't.
For many reasons.
Most obvious to basic common sense is the necessity of firing current workers in these jobs, and having enough jobs for all prisoners and what happens when there aren't enough jobs. Minimum wage for 100 felons to mow 1 park with 1 lawnmower? Each take a turn doing a row?
Also obvious to basic common sense is getting them to actually do the work.
Chain gangs maybe? Get a bunch together, and then hire 3,4,5 people to stand over them with whips in case they slack off or just refuse?
Back to thinly disguised slavery, again.

And that doesn't even consider things like insurance, disability, or OSHA requirements. Like if a felon falls off a ladder and can't work anymore. Free ride? Or is their working career over so they have to go back to stealing and crime anyway?


But I wouldn't believe that would be very good ways on "how" to do what I wanted. So...how to increase jobs, create greater income equality, and make people shiny and happy?
That's pretty easy, reduce government, let everything collapse, let all the weak people die in fiery race wars, riots, and conflict, then let them relearn all the lessons that should have been learned and would have kept us from getting to this point.




I wonder if you assume that is what happens in prisons or realize that is what happens before prison, prisons are just a way to mitigate the effects of that to the rest of society, but really just exacerbates it in the individual in prison.


Are you really comparing being grounded in your room as a kid for breaking moms rules to being an adult and going to prison for breaking the actual law?
Would what you did to get grounded have landed you in prison if you were to do it as a grownup? I highly doubt it.


People don't really change, IMO.
At best they learn to mitigate their impulses with changes in behavior that doesn't negatively impact themselves and/or others.
e.g. addicts get addicted to cigarettes, caffeine, and religion rather than crack.
And that's only if they really "want" to change.
Learning to adapt to ways that are less harmful is different than changing, IMO.
IMO you don't learn to adapt unless you don't like the consequences to your past behavior. Which means it needs to be relatively severe.
The bad thing about prisons is it is an entirely different society that people adapt to in order to survive.


So, off the top of my head, roundabout to the OP, I would really only change 1 thing to reform prisons.
Get rid of any communal interaction. Complete isolation for each person. Let it be the ostracization it's supposed to be rather than retraining for a sub society.
Except for maybe an occasional therapist.

addressing three issues

1. putting prisoners to work wouldn't require firing anyone,,,there are all types of open positions that people just don't WANT to do,,,,and if its a requirement while in prison, it saves the employer an actual 'wage'

2.I fully realize the hopelessness and lack of esteem many criminals learn happens before prison, which is why I believe its a great idea not to CONTINUE that self perpetuating condition during imprisonment,, being locked away from citizens mitigates enough, and keeps citizens safe,, it makes more sense to be doing something CONSTRUCTIVE during the time that criminals are locked up to discourage the recidivism once they are released...


3. Several things kids do would be crimes as adults,,

a. Throwing things about the house and the yard, writing on walls? Property crime (17% of prison population),,,

b. like when teens sneak beers and prescriptions from their parents , Drug crime(20.5 % of prison population) is basically people having for ingestion or selling/sharing something the law has determined they cant have

c. throwing tantrums , being vulgar, disrespectful to 'authority',,,, Public disorder (10% of prison population)


that's a full 47.5 percent who may be better served with productive 'correction' instead of strictly 'punishment'

http://felonvoting.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004339