Topic: sign or mark of the beast.
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Tom4Uhere

Mon 02/19/18 02:42 PM



And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

This passage indicates that the Bible is NOT subject to interpretation. That it is written as intended.
Then it threatens you.

That means everyone that substitues their own meaning to the passages are in violation.

If it talks about dragons, it means dragons.
If it talks about a multiheaded beast, it means a multiheaded beast.
If it talks about a lamb, it means a lamb.

http://biblehub.com/revelation/22-19.htm

New Heart English Bible
for plain english
If anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life, and out of the holy city, which are written in this book.



that is interesting

of course 'prophecy' implies predictions, and 'this book' was the book of Revelations, not all the books of the Bible

take away, can be interpreted as any type of change or translation, or merely omitting some part.

I can say Hello, in English and translate it to Hola in Spanish, but I have not taken anything away (the same thing is being said)


I don't think 'take away' has anything to do with something being literal or not, but only regarding omitting what is there (whether what is there is literal or figurative or metaphorical)

I understand what you are saying but...
So many times it has been argued that the Bible is the word of God. To interpret what is written to mean different things is substituting the word as written to mean what you think it means.
However, the words are written specifically. Transcribed thru the ages by people's understanding of what was originally written.
The original specific meaning of each word is changed by transcription so it makes sense to the readers of that particular language. Lost in translation is a very real condition of transcription.

Upon the very first transcription of the Bible the monks doing the transcription used their own understanding of the words they were transcribing. Repeat this process a thousandfold over the centuries and the meaning of the original script gets befuddled.

if any man shall take away from the words of the book
Implies that the only one that can give meaning to the words is God and since these are the words of God, the meaning is written as intended.
So if God says there is a mark on the forehead, there is actually a mark on the forehead. He didn't imply it, He wrote it as He intended.

If the Bible IS the Word of God and He instructed a man to write His Word, It is written exactly as He intended it.
This means that Creation did happen exactly as written.
That dragons do exist, because that is what He wrote.

If, however, The Bible is not the Word of God, then it is a work of Man. With all the flexibility religions give to the passages, this has more reasonable credence.
It is a work of fiction used to manipulate the morals and actions of other men. That is not such a bad thing in and of itself considering the times in history when it was written. Men needed guidance from On-High and the Bible gives them that.
It established the moral code we have even today. Its a brilliant tactic and very effective.
It gives punishments and rewards that are not had in the reality of life experiences. You pay for your sins after you die unless you believe what is written and follow those rules.
People don't kill because of reality repercussions of law but they also won't kill because they fear the repercussions detailed in the Bible. A very effective deterrent that exists beyond perceived reality.

Revelations prophesizes the finality of Man's struggle with morality. It offers a reward for some and a punishment for others.
What it doesn't offer is a time frame. So, any society thru time anticipates it as an imminent future that they might witness first hand. It keeps us locked in eternal anticipation.

As much as I can see the effectiveness of it all, I also see a shift in the societal intelligence as we learn more and a population. More and more of the lessons are making less and less sense to a people that have experience based reasoning ability.
More people exist in the "I believe what I see" than the "I believe what he said" mentality. Reality has become our teacher.

Unlike some, I have no real problem with anyone believing what they choose. Where I have a problem is when those same people will not afford me the same consideration. Then they try to use pre-established beliefs as reasoning to change my view. However, that reasoning has obvious faults to what reality teaches.

If you find contentment in your religion and it gives you peace, by all mean, go ahead. Just don't try to tell me I'm wrong in my beliefs.
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msharmony

Mon 02/19/18 02:48 PM

God spoke as well in parables and metaphors... its not all literal

to 'not take away' has to do with omission, and not rather something is literal or metaphorical
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Godsfriend10

Tue 02/20/18 07:40 AM



.....At the first dimension, intellectual reasoning is deployed by user in studying. It's no different from other written works. This is your level.
However,the second deeper dimension is the realm of revelation(rhema) ,here, The person of God ,The Holy Ghost,the principal author of the bible becomes the interpreter. He is the big difference!
The reason for your lack of understanding of the bible is due to your lack of The person of the Holy Ghost,the third person of the trinity-the very Spirit of Jesus Christ.
hmmm laughing .. forgot about your dimensions ... that is not what I asked ...
have you seen the original scripts? .. are you able to interpret their language for yourself ?.. how do you know the bible is an accurate representation of god?

Have you seen the original scripts? Sis Blondey,I have seen the deep sea scrolls during college bible exhibitions.
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Godsfriend10

Tue 02/20/18 08:01 AM

.....The original languages of the bible were greek,aramaic,hebrew.
I dont speak any. However, I am very comfortable with the English interpretation because the same person of God,the Holy Ghost that inspired the writing bible over a 1500yr period indwells me.
The same Holy Ghost that was in apostle Paul,Peter ET AL indwells me giving me
Understanding of His inspired,ever dynamic word.
John 14v26
''But the comforter,which is the Holy Ghost,whom the father shall send in my name he shall teach you all things,and bring all things to your remembrance,whatsoever,I have said to you''
Edited by Godsfriend10 on Tue 02/20/18 08:22 AM
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mightymoe

Tue 02/20/18 08:12 AM


.....The original languages of the bible were greek,aramaic,hebrew.
I dont speak any. However, I am very comfortable with the English interpretation because the same person of God,the Holy Ghost that inspired the writing bible over a 1500yr period indwells me.
The same Holy Ghost that was in apostle Paul,Peter indwells me giving me
Understanding of His inspired,ever dynamic word.

http://www.deadseascrolls.org.il/learn-about-the-scrolls/introduction?locale=en_US
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chris2460

Tue 02/20/18 08:38 AM

I think it's important to remember that though the writer's may have been inspired by their faith in God the Bible was "written" or transcribed by men and many of the Greek and Hebrew words have more than one translation or meaning - thus the Bible is open to various interpretations - just as one denomination says the Bible frowns on divorce another one will says it might be a possibility ie a "Catholic annulment"
I think the problems arises when one denomination is convinced that their interpretation is the only "correct" one. I really don't think faith or it's precepts are black or white. If you look at the Old Testament
it portrays God as being someone to be feared, whereas in the New Testament the message leans more
to a loving and forgiving God. I think that one needs to be careful in not being too rigid in one's interpretation because it is that rigidity that leads to self-righteousness & extremism. Just my opinion.
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Mrmxb

Tue 02/20/18 12:20 PM


Some writers in Islam say that Allah's mercy is 100 equal parts. God has given this part to the whole earth (loving mother's baby, loving sheep and lamb, people are merciful to each other, plants are green). the remaining 99 pieces are hidden for the rest of the world, to forgive people. Allah is very merciful. And Allah will not give up hope, He is forgiving. people, animals, plants. God is very very merciful to our parents. the father of the homeless. beside the weak. beside the persecutors. /// Allah is just and only loved. because it is very merciful. /// These are the books. I think it's true and I think this is ...
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mightymoe

Tue 02/20/18 12:21 PM


I think it's important to remember that though the writer's may have been inspired by their faith in God the Bible was "written" or transcribed by men and many of the Greek and Hebrew words have more than one translation or meaning - thus the Bible is open to various interpretations - just as one denomination says the Bible frowns on divorce another one will says it might be a possibility ie a "Catholic annulment"
I think the problems arises when one denomination is convinced that their interpretation is the only "correct" one. I really don't think faith or it's precepts are black or white. If you look at the Old Testament
it portrays God as being someone to be feared, whereas in the New Testament the message leans more
to a loving and forgiving God. I think that one needs to be careful in not being too rigid in one's interpretation because it is that rigidity that leads to self-righteousness & extremism. Just my opinion.
very true...more people have died in the name of a god than anything else....
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mightymoe

Tue 02/20/18 12:25 PM



Some writers in Islam say that Allah's mercy is 100 equal parts. God has given this part to the whole earth (loving mother's baby, loving sheep and lamb, people are merciful to each other, plants are green). the remaining 99 pieces are hidden for the rest of the world, to forgive people. Allah is very merciful. And Allah will not give up hope, He is forgiving. people, animals, plants. God is very very merciful to our parents. the father of the homeless. beside the weak. beside the persecutors. /// Allah is just and only loved. because it is very merciful. /// These are the books. I think it's true and I think this is ...
your preaching about the just and merciful Allah, but didn't muslims kill 3000 people in 20 minutes by flying planes into buildings in the name of you just and merciful god Allah? Please spare us your BS...
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Tom4Uhere

Tue 02/20/18 12:33 PM


I think it's important to remember that though the writer's may have been inspired by their faith in God the Bible was "written" or transcribed by men and many of the Greek and Hebrew words have more than one translation or meaning - thus the Bible is open to various interpretations - just as one denomination says the Bible frowns on divorce another one will says it might be a possibility ie a "Catholic annulment"
I think the problems arises when one denomination is convinced that their interpretation is the only "correct" one. I really don't think faith or it's precepts are black or white. If you look at the Old Testament
it portrays God as being someone to be feared, whereas in the New Testament the message leans more
to a loving and forgiving God. I think that one needs to be careful in not being too rigid in one's interpretation because it is that rigidity that leads to self-righteousness & extremism. Just my opinion.

I agree with that.
But, doesn't that make it wishy-washy?
Isn't the Bible supposed to be some sort of instructions for living life?
Wouldn't you think that it would be clear and concise so there is no doubt or interpretation needed?
Its brilliantly written in such a way that it can be applied to any demographic figuratively. It all depends upon your point of reference and how you perceive the meaning. Wishy-washy.

If The Beast will rise out of the Sea can have multiple meanings including specifically what is written.
The location of the people where the books of the Bible were written put them into daily vicinity of a sea. Seas were very important to those ancient fishing settlements. It was a significant word.
However, to a land locked people in the desert, 'Sea' can have a completely different meaning.
Sea of People,
Sea of Sand,
Sea of Technology,
Sea of Souls...etc.

If I were to write a handbook for the people in my town on how to live on a budget, it would be written specifically for those people that live in my town.
If someone from another town on the other side of the world were to transcribe what I wrote, chances are they would use words that apply to the people of their town. Which may not have any meaning as I intended it.
Now, take these words and allow people to apply their own meanings to them. What was a distinct set of instructions now becomes wishy-washy.
One could take their wishy-washy version and apply it to what they experience and after the fact proclaim it as accurate and true. They acquire faith that the wishy-washy version is the absolute truth and if anyone tries to tell them they are mistaken, it is taken as an attack on their belief.

You read "Cutting onions make a grown man cry"
You see a man cutting onions with tears running down his face.
You reread it and it has truth.
You see another man cutting onions with tears running down his face.
You gain faith that cutting onions make a grown man cry.
All your experience supports your faith.
You assume that every grown man that cuts onions, cries.
Until you see a grown man cutting onions and not crying your faith is justified.

The Bible is written in such a way that YOU can make your life fit it by finding a way to make the meaning apply to your life. Faith by power of suggestion. You reinforce your own delusion.
The power of fear is a grand motivator.
Many people don't understand the society they live in.
They operate in a state of pending doom.
Revelations plays on that.

What my contentment gives me is the fact that I don't see the world in perpetual doom. I don't live in fear of the unknown.
I like me. I don't need to be saved from anything. I embrace the mistakes I made in the past and try to learn from them. I see life as the state of existence. My soul is a process of my sentience.
I see death as the end of life, nothing more.
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Mrmxb

Tue 02/20/18 01:20 PM




Some writers in Islam say that Allah's mercy is 100 equal parts. God has given this part to the whole earth (loving mother's baby, loving sheep and lamb, people are merciful to each other, plants are green). the remaining 99 pieces are hidden for the rest of the world, to forgive people. Allah is very merciful. And Allah will not give up hope, He is forgiving. people, animals, plants. God is very very merciful to our parents. the father of the homeless. beside the weak. beside the persecutors. /// Allah is just and only loved. because it is very merciful. /// These are the books. I think it's true and I think this is ...
your preaching about the just and merciful Allah, but didn't muslims kill 3000 people in 20 minutes by flying planes into buildings in the name of you just and merciful god Allah? Please spare us your BS...


"killing a person without guilt is like killing all people." it is said by our Prophet Muhammad. This is Islamic rule. Our Prophet did not hurt an ant. misunderstandings today are not relevant at all to Islam. /// Some of those who do this are spies, not Muslims. That is how all Muslims in the world know it. that is to discredit Islam. /// there is no interest in Islam in some of the ridiculous comments of some terrorist organizations. You understand what I mean. /// Let's go to the death of 3,000 people by plane. whoever did it is a terrorist, whoever made it is a terrorist. This is my idea. /// Since he was a Muslim, then 52 million Muslims were killed because he believed in Allah. Who killed. atheist killed reason. to kill 52 million people to save humanity. I do not want to give that state the name in this form. I hope your heart will go out for it. /// now come "Please spare us your BS ...". I use google translation. Sometimes I completely understand everything. Leave this site to this clan. Yes, I do. ///
1) You owe me an explanation for this clan. 2) Are you the administrator or site owner of this site? 3) is this site originated from the British? and you are english? /// You owe me absolutely explanation?
I look forward to your reply with plain and small sentences ...
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chris2460

Tue 02/20/18 01:23 PM




Some writers in Islam say that Allah's mercy is 100 equal parts. God has given this part to the whole earth (loving mother's baby, loving sheep and lamb, people are merciful to each other, plants are green). the remaining 99 pieces are hidden for the rest of the world, to forgive people. Allah is very merciful. And Allah will not give up hope, He is forgiving. people, animals, plants. God is very very merciful to our parents. the father of the homeless. beside the weak. beside the persecutors. /// Allah is just and only loved. because it is very merciful. /// These are the books. I think it's true and I think this is ...
your preaching about the just and merciful Allah, but didn't muslims kill 3000 people in 20 minutes by flying planes into buildings in the name of you just and merciful god Allah? Please spare us your BS...


Just as some Christians are extremists and fanatics so are some Muslims - you can't judge an entire religion based the actions of some militant extremists just like you can't judge an entire race or ethnic group by the actions of some of it's members it's like saying all Irish people like to drink, all Polish people are stupid. all Southerners like fried chicken etc. Like you said - a lot of people have died in the name of religion - the muslims you are talking about are extremists. Their danger is that they are extremists - not that they are Muslims. Though I can understand your reasoning,the Koran does not condone what these extremists are advocating - if you believe all Muslims are "bad" based on the destructive actions of militant Muslims than you yourself are being extremist in your view point - it's just not that simple. My point being that over generalizations are rarely accurate.
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Nofearinlove

Tue 02/20/18 01:28 PM




Some writers in Islam say that Allah's mercy is 100 equal parts. God has given this part to the whole earth (loving mother's baby, loving sheep and lamb, people are merciful to each other, plants are green). the remaining 99 pieces are hidden for the rest of the world, to forgive people. Allah is very merciful. And Allah will not give up hope, He is forgiving. people, animals, plants. God is very very merciful to our parents. the father of the homeless. beside the weak. beside the persecutors. /// Allah is just and only loved. because it is very merciful. /// These are the books. I think it's true and I think this is ...
your preaching about the just and merciful Allah, but didn't muslims kill 3000 people in 20 minutes by flying planes into buildings in the name of you just and merciful god Allah? Please spare us your BS...


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