Topic: Nanotechnology ~ Blurring Science and Fantasy
Reply
mightymoe's photo

mightymoe

Mon 08/14/17 02:33 PM


Imagine you had nanites inside you that are under control by your will. You smash your hand and you can direct the nanites to rebuild your hand.
You want your hand to be a hammer, you direct them and the nanites reconstruct your hand into a hammer. But its a hammer made of bone not metal.
If you lay your hand on an anvil, the nanites have access to metal and incorporates that metal into your hammer hand, now your hand is a hammer made of metal or a hammer made of bone with metal in it.
I never understood why some people believe this could be a real thing... if it were possible to do what you just said, it still wouldn't work as a hammer for the fact that the rest of your arm is still flesh and bone... so your arm would break at the weakest point, close to where the metal stops and the bone starts... so that would be useless to try unless all your bones were metal... like the million dollar man picks up a car with his biopic arm... his arms and legs might bionic, but not his back... it would killed him the first time he tried...i know you don't believe this sillyness, but some do
Tom4Uhere's photo

Tom4Uhere

Mon 08/14/17 10:49 PM



Imagine you had nanites inside you that are under control by your will. You smash your hand and you can direct the nanites to rebuild your hand.
You want your hand to be a hammer, you direct them and the nanites reconstruct your hand into a hammer. But its a hammer made of bone not metal.
If you lay your hand on an anvil, the nanites have access to metal and incorporates that metal into your hammer hand, now your hand is a hammer made of metal or a hammer made of bone with metal in it.
I never understood why some people believe this could be a real thing... if it were possible to do what you just said, it still wouldn't work as a hammer for the fact that the rest of your arm is still flesh and bone... so your arm would break at the weakest point, close to where the metal stops and the bone starts... so that would be useless to try unless all your bones were metal... like the million dollar man picks up a car with his biopic arm... his arms and legs might bionic, but not his back... it would killed him the first time he tried...i know you don't believe this sillyness, but some do

That is very accurate. I remember watching the 6 million dollar man and thinking the same thing. My example was not to show a practical application but more focused on the atomic rearrangement. Nano can't create new atoms, it can only rearrange the ones that already exist.
If there is enough diversity in the source material, any rearrangement could exist.

A nano-suit like Drexler talks about could make you seem like Steve Austion the 6 million dollar man. But you would have to be enclosed in the suit.

The suit manages to do all this and more by means of complex activity within a structure having a texture almost as intricate as that of living tissue. A glove finger a millimeter thick has room for a thousand micron-thick layers of active nanomachinery and nanoelectronics. A fingertip-sized patch has room for a billion mechanical nanocomputers, with 99.9 percent of the volume left over for other components.

Without the suit, you would be merely a man.
Drexler uses the suit example for space travel but a suit like that could also be used on planet. The thing is, the suit couldn't be made without the base materials in proper abundance.

Here is the section on the suit - in case you missed it earlier.
Keep in mind that the suit is made already, you put it on and it functions by your command.

Since nanotechnology lends itself to making small things, consider the smallest person-carrying spacecraft: the spacesuit. Forced to use weak, heavy, passive materials, engineers now make bulky, clumsy spacesuits. A look at an advanced spacesuit will illustrate some of the capabilities of nanotechnology.

Imagine that you are aboard a space station, spun to simulate Earth's normal gravity. After instruction, you have been given a suit to try out: there it hangs on the wall, a gray, rubbery-looking thing with a transparent helmet. You take it down, heft its substantial weight, strip, and step in through the open seam on the front.

The suit feels softer than the softest rubber, but has a slick inner surface. It slips on easily and the seam seals at a touch. It provides a skintight covering like a thin leather glove around your fingers, thickening as it runs up your arm to become as thick as your hand in the region around your torso. Behind your shoulders, scarcely noticeable, is a small backpack. Around your head, almost invisible, is the helmet. Below your neck the suits inner surface hugs your skin with a light, uniform touch that soon becomes almost imperceptible.

You stand up and walk around, experimenting. You bounce on your toes and feel no extra weight from the suit. You bend and stretch and feel no restraint, no wrinkling, no pressure points. When you rub your fingers together they feel sensitive, as if bare - but somehow slightly thicker. As you breathe, the air tastes clean and fresh. In fact, you feel that you could forget that you are wearing a suit at all. What is more, you feel just as comfortable when you step out into the vacuum of space.

The suit manages to do all this and more by means of complex activity within a structure having a texture almost as intricate as that of living tissue. A glove finger a millimeter thick has room for a thousand micron-thick layers of active nanomachinery and nanoelectronics. A fingertip-sized patch has room for a billion mechanical nanocomputers, with 99.9 percent of the volume left over for other components.

In particular, this leaves room for an active structure. The middle layer of the suit material holds a three-dimensional weave of diamond-based fibers acting much like artificial muscle, but able to push as well as pull (as discussed in the Notes). These fibers take up much of the volume and make the suit material as strong as steel. Powered by microscopic electric motors and controlled by nanocomputers, they give the suit material its supple strength, making it stretch, contract, and bend as needed. When the suit felt soft earlier, this was because it had been programmed to act soft. The suit has no difficulty holding its shape in a vacuum; it has strength enough to avoid blowing up like a balloon. Likewise, it has no difficulty supporting its own weight and moving to match your motions, quickly, smoothly, and without resistance. This is one reason why it almost seems not to be there at all.

Your fingers feel almost bare because you feel the texture of what you touch. This happens because pressure sensors cover the suit's surface and active structure covers its lining: the glove feels the shape of whatever you touch - and the detailed pattern of pressure it exerts - and transmits the same texture pattern to your skin. It also reverses the process, transmitting to the outside the detailed pattern of forces exerted by your skin on the inside of the glove. Thus the glove pretends that it isn't there, and your skin feels almost bare.

The suit has the strength of steel and the flexibility of your own body. If you reset the suit's controls, the suit continues to match your motions, but with a difference. Instead of simply transmitting the forces you exert, it amplifies them by a factor of ten. Likewise, when something brushes against you, the suit now transmits only a tenth of the force to the inside. You are now ready for a wrestling match with a gorilla.

The fresh air you breathe may not seem surprising; the backpack includes a supply of air and other consumables. Yet after a few days outside in the sunlight, your air will not run out: like a plant, the suit absorbs sunlight and the carbon dioxide you exhale, producing fresh oxygen. Also like a plant (or a whole ecosystem), it breaks down other wastes into simple molecules and reassembles them into the molecular patterns of fresh, wholesome food. In fact, the suit will keep you comfortable, breathing, and well fed almost anywhere in the inner solar system.

What is more, the suit is durable. It can tolerate the failure of numerous nanomachines because it has so many others to take over the load. The space between the active fibers leaves room enough for assemblers and disassemblers to move about and repair damaged devices. The suit repairs itself as fast as it wears out.

Within the bounds of the possible, the suit could have many other features. A speck of material smaller than a pinhead could hold the text of every book ever published, for display on a fold-out screen. Another speck could be a "seed" containing the blueprints for a range of devices greater than the total the human race has yet built, along with replicating assemblers able to make any or all of them.
mightymoe's photo

mightymoe

Mon 09/04/17 01:35 PM




Motorized nanobots could fight deadly cancers inside the body – study (VIDEO)
An artist's impression of one of the motorized nanobots © Rice University / YouTube
Nanotechnology could soon be used to directly combat disease within the human body – a breakthrough that promises revolutionary new treatments for the most deadly forms of cancer.

The study, published in the journal Nature, outlines how an international team of researchers from Rice, Durham, and North Carolina State universities worked together to test single-molecule nanomachines, a collection of rotor-propelled microbots capable of easily tunneling through the membranes of targeted cells to administer drugs.

In one test conducted at Durham University in the UK, the nanomachines took as little as three minutes to tunnel through the wall of a prostate cancer cell. The machine killed the cancer cell instantly.

Durham's Dr. Robert Pal, a leader of the study and Royal Society University Research Fellow, believes the machines could be used to treat a range of cancers, including those most resistant to treatment.

He said: “We are moving towards realizing our ambition to be able to use light-activated nanomachines to target cancer cells such as those in breast tumors and skin melanomas, including those that are resistant to existing chemotherapy.”

“Once developed, this approach could provide a potential step change in noninvasive cancer treatment and greatly improve survival rates and patient welfare globally,” he added.
A prostate cancer cell comes under attack by the motorized molecules © Rice University

The nanomachines must spin at a rate of three million times per second in order to propel themselves through the body and overcome Brownian motion, the erratic movement of microscopic particles in the bloodstream.

Rice University chemist James Tour put into perspective the the size of the technology as well as the advanced level of technology contained within the microscopic machines.

"These nanomachines are so small that we could park 50,000 of them across the diameter of a human hair, yet they have the targeting and actuating components combined in that diminutive package to make molecular machines a reality for treating disease,” Tour said.

READ MORE: Surge in Australian breast cancer cases linked to cheap breast implants

The research is continuing, with teams carrying out experiments on microorganisms and fish. If successful, the researchers hope to move on to testing on rodents.

“The hope is to move this swiftly to rodents to test the efficacy of nanomachines for a wide range of medicinal therapies,” Tour added.
no photo

Unknow

Mon 09/04/17 01:39 PM

Not exactly the same but here they are putting a movie camera on a bee so they can track how it pollenates!
mightymoe's photo

mightymoe

Mon 09/04/17 01:42 PM


Not exactly the same but here they are putting a movie camera on a bee so they can track how it pollenates!


...i can answer that for a lot less money...they fly from flower to flower...
no photo

Unknow

Mon 09/04/17 01:44 PM



Not exactly the same but here they are putting a movie camera on a bee so they can track how it pollenates!


...i can answer that for a lot less money...they fly from flower to flower...

surprised laugh
Tom4Uhere's photo

Tom4Uhere

Mon 09/04/17 02:56 PM



Not exactly the same but here they are putting a movie camera on a bee so they can track how it pollenates!


...i can answer that for a lot less money...they fly from flower to flower...

When we do it they call it pornography.
Tom4Uhere's photo

Tom4Uhere

Mon 09/04/17 03:40 PM

Complex repair machines will need nanocomputers to guide them. A micron-wide mechanical computer will fit in 1/1000 of the volume of a typical cell, yet will hold more information than does the cell's DNA. In a repair system, such computers will direct smaller, simpler computers, which will in turn direct machines to examine, take apart, and rebuild damaged molecular structures.

Drexler EOC

To visualize an advanced cell repair machine, imagine it - and a cell - enlarged until atoms are the size of small marbles.

On this scale, the repair machine's smallest tools have tips about the size of your fingertips;
a medium-sized protein, like hemoglobin, is the size of a typewriter;
and a ribosome is the size of a washing machine.

A single repair device contains a simple computer the size of a small truck, along with many sensors of protein size, several manipulators of ribosome size, and provisions for memory and motive power.
A total volume ten meters across, the size of a three-story house, holds all these parts and more.
With parts the size of marbles packing this volume, the repair machine can do complex things.


What I find inspiring is the section on Environmental Impact of Nanotechnology.

Consider the toxic waste problem.
Whether in our air, soil, or water, wastes concern us because they can harm living systems.
But any materials that come in contact with the molecular machinery of life can themselves be reached by other forms of molecular machinery.
This means that we will be able to design cleaning machines to remove these poisons wherever they could harm life.


Future planet-healing machines will also help us mend torn landscapes and restore damaged ecosystems.
Mining has scraped and pitted the Earth; carelessness has littered it. Fighting forest fires has let undergrowth thrive, replacing the cathedral-like openness of ancient forests with scrub growth that feeds more dangerous fires.

We will use inexpensive, sophisticated robots to reverse these effects and others.
Able to move rock and soil, they will re-contour torn lands.
Able to weed and digest, they will simulate the clearing effects of natural forest fires without danger or devastation.
Able to lift and move trees, they will thin thick stands and reforest bare hills.
We will make squirrel-sized devices with a taste for old trash.
We will make treelike devices with roots that spread deep and cleanse the soil of pesticides and excess acid.
We will make insect-sized lichen cleaners and spray-paint nibblers.
We will make whatever devices we need to clean up the mess left by twentieth-century civilization.


I really do recommend reading Drexler's Engines of Creation. It is so inspiring and optimistic in a world stuffed to the gills with pessimistic future expectations.
no photo

Unknow

Mon 09/04/17 10:22 PM




Not exactly the same but here they are putting a movie camera on a bee so they can track how it pollenates!


...i can answer that for a lot less money...they fly from flower to flower...

When we do it they call it pornography.

laugh
Tom4Uhere's photo

Tom4Uhere

Sat 05/19/18 08:38 PM

Bump for discussion...
notbeold's photo

notbeold

Sat 05/19/18 09:29 PM

what if all the nanobots say "I'm afraid I can't do that Dave" ?

Or if they universally decide on any action, our whole nano-boted world would collapse, along with augmented - bot-vaccinated humans.

I'd suggest to quarantine all nanobots off planet, for at least the first 50 years, just to be safe.

Put them to work there, and make them so that if they get out of control, they all burn up on destructive re-entry.

Just look at the mess conventional industrialists have made of this planet.
Tom4Uhere's photo

Tom4Uhere

Sat 05/19/18 10:03 PM


what if all the nanobots say "I'm afraid I can't do that Dave" ?

Or if they universally decide on any action, our whole nano-boted world would collapse, along with augmented - bot-vaccinated humans.

I'd suggest to quarantine all nanobots off planet, for at least the first 50 years, just to be safe.

Put them to work there, and make them so that if they get out of control, they all burn up on destructive re-entry.

Just look at the mess conventional industrialists have made of this planet.

According to what I understand from what I have read, nanobots will not be thinkers able to create free will. They will essentially be guided by atomic punch cards with a defined set of specific instructions to their functionality. At least I think that's what Drexler was saying?
He alludes to a controlling AI.
I guess if the AI goes rogue it could create instructions that would be detrimental to matter eventually.
I highly doubt people would allow it to get so far out of control tho.

I think the biggest threat would be people setting a function without carefully considering the implications.
Like setting a group of nanos to work fixing an environment and the nanos misidentifying people or construction as non-environmental.

Most of the gadgets will be in construction chambers with a finite set of bots tasked with the construction. Kinda like a 3d printer is now but on a larger scale.
notbeold's photo

notbeold

Sun 05/20/18 08:41 AM

You would have to treat them like medical instruments - count them in and count them all out again.
The power source and other systems must be virtually indestructible.
Ensure they don't self programme, or self replicate, or break down leaving bits behind.
And make sure different species of nanobot don't merge with each other creating 'mutants'.

I reckon best used sent to an asteroid or similar to mine, process, and manufacture fuels and materials for further space travel.
Tom4Uhere's photo

Tom4Uhere

Sun 05/20/18 09:15 AM

Many people have a fear of the 'Grey Goo' scenario.
Where nanobots replicate themselves without control, turning all matter into more nanobots.

A nanobot is basically a group of atoms arranged in such a way that allows them to break apart and recombine molecules.
They are really small, not much room for anything, certainly not an AI.

They can't change elements. Like changing carbon into lead or argon.
If I remember correctly, to manipulate a molecule takes at least two specialized nanobots.

A disassembler to break the molecules apart and an assembler to combine.
As far as I understand it, the nanobot is too small to fit both instuctions on one unit.
I might be wrong, its been awhile since I read into it.

Atoms the size of marbles.
On this scale, the repair machine's smallest tools have tips about the size of your fingertips;
a medium-sized protein, like hemoglobin, is the size of a typewriter;
and a ribosome is the size of a washing machine.

A single repair device contains a simple computer the size of a small truck, along with many sensors of protein size, several manipulators of ribosome size, and provisions for memory and motive power.
A total volume ten meters across, the size of a three-story house, holds all these parts and more.

Even at these comparisons there's just not enough room for the nanobot to have AI with the capacity of free will.
They are so small, they don't change volume significantly even if there are millions of them.

A fingertip-sized patch has room for a billion mechanical nanocomputers, with 99.9 percent of the volume left over for other components.