Good evening my lovely folks of M2, I'm back in full effect, I took some time off but your boy has some heated topics for 2018. Shouts out to all my " Vocal Avengers" current & new, okay, lets get right into it. America, I came across this article on Google news that sickens me to the core. This hot tea about a police officers pulling a gun on a 11 year old girl in Michigan. Let me explain, according to the article police officers who handcuffed & frightened an 11 year old girl won't face and disciplinary action, but they're getting a new set a rules for dealing with kids that's been dubbed the " Honestie Policy". Named after the girl Honestie Hodges, the policy requires Grand Rapids Police Department officers to get to know the kids on their beats. Starting right away, all patrol officers will have more interaction with community children on a rotating schedule. working with several outreach programs. Lieutenants trained in Cultural Competency & de-escalation techniques will be added to each patrol shift & officers will get more " dynamic scenarios training including children. So America, what do you think about this here? the rest of article just explains more sensitivity methods and other ect. should this apply to not just adults but kids too? Do you agree with the officers or the children's parents while being arrested? Let's talk about it, how do you feel?

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EyeAmYourHost39

EyeAmYourHost39,

America, its time for my rant......I think the officers was just a little to extreme in a case like this. the girl didn't have a firearms, knife, mace, combative, intoxicated, or something where they would have a reason to be extreme. Children are not adults, when kids see police officers, they automatically on fear mode. that's because the images they see on movies,, the news, or in there neighborhoods, you know they not about trouble. maybe this girl was wrong some way but its not needed to pull guns on kids unless you fear for your life. I think this sensitivity training should apply even for us adults too. but our kids, you got to be a little bit more compassion.

I think there was a thread about it last week, but in this case, it was idiotic. They were looking for a white adult and handcuffing an unarmed and unthreatening black child was definitely illogical.

On the larger scale than this incident though, I have always been a fan of the idea that police should be trained in deescalation and not just reaction. And I have also thought police should be better able to 'protect and serve' a community when they have some emotional and personal investment in it by building relationships and trust with those citizens in the communities they serve.

Kaepernick and others are actually starting programs on the civilian side to help young people build a better relationship with cops and learn about the cops responsibilities and how to prevent altercation when interacting with cops. I feel programs on the civilian side like these ALONG WITH programs on the cop side to build better relations and learn deescalation would go a VERY LONG way to decreasing tensions and potential deaths.

We will see if it becomes more than a trend and takes hold. I hope it does.

EyeAmYourHost39,

Another thought for food, its a war going on outside right now. Terrorism...maybe!, the real war is the civilians & the police. Not all police but the Blue Klux Klan Police. You notice when you join the force, you took an oath to serve & protect. You also have a brotherhood or sisterhood within law enforcement. The problem is everybody is afraid of everybody. cops are afraid of the civilians. The Civilians are afraid of law enforcement. It has to be a bridge that will connect to both forces. Now I know some of you folks that support law enforcement, and I'm no means telling you not to. But the Blue Klux Klan bad apple cops are the ones being expose in this here. Then sometimes some officers are told to be extreme as long as you have a probable cause. First it was the Miranda rights went out the window, now they working on disarming us firearms owners. Next will be open season on any & every. Be aware, educate yourself , research & grow.

While I was not there and do not know all of the things that happened, what I did see was disturbing to me. She was a kid who did not seem to be holding a weapon and she did not seem to be a threat to herself or anyone else. I also do not know what their department protocol is for these situation.

Regardless, I found it to be inappropriate for the situation.

You take out your weapon if there is a threat to yourself or someone else and I did not see that.

Ms Harmony,

Hey lady of class, well I certainly agree with you on police should be retrained for sensitivity. pulling guns on 11 year old children is too extreme. I support the retraining ideal, It make bad cops to think twice before acting on impulse.

Greeneyes148,


Hey welcome back, I'm like you I don't know the crime she committed, but like you said I don't think she the type to have a weapon on her for law enforcement to want to pull guns on her. I agree again if you pull a gun on law enforcement, well you get what you get. But if there's no threat, well be expected the worst.

I think one thing that is common in adults is that we tend to forget children are children.
I hear parents complaining about their children's behavior and I usually say "Wait a minute, they are children being children, how can you expect them to act like adults when you haven't taught them that yet?"
Too often, adults expect children to be other, smaller versions of adults but the children don't have the capacity or the wisdom to understand adult concepts.

I looked for a policy on service weapon procedures in police handbooks. Searched google for "police handbook - service weapon deployment policy".
The results listed specific police department policies but there was no general policy. There are general policies concerning carrying and what is done after it is used but no specific policy determining when it can be brought to bear. Perhaps my search parameters were insufficent? Its hard for me to believe there isn't a universal policy concerning when a firearm can be brought to bear.

The outreach program you mentioned is not new.
D.A.R.E. has been an established police program for decades, my own children were involved with D.A.R.E. activities.
Even in my own childhood the police were active in the community, acting more as youth councellors than hard-nosed cops.

The issues in the NEWS are not police issues. They are issues with people that are police officers. People are unique and do unique things. Just like everyone else, there are good and bad and then there are those that simply make a mistake.

I live in a mid size township in N.J. our police department does a great job interacting with kids thru their DARE program, PAL program. McGriff ( the crime dog) program and they are always at local schools meeting with the kids.

They held a drug awareness program at the middle school when my sons went there. Parents were able to sit in, which I did. It was a great program in the sense that they showed real drugs and drug paraphernalia. And they took the time to explain to the kids the ramifications of drugs to a person. They showed photo's of what drugs do to peoples looks, especially crack and meth.

They spoke to the kids more as fathers then police officers. And you could see they really cared. It was great.

This police officer used very bad judgement, (in my opinion) but that is not a reflection on the 100's of 1000's who use good judgement everyday.

The gun should not have come out of the holster.

we cannot have enough programs to help our kids live safer lives among themselves AND amongst cops

imho


Good on those who are trying

I think it's easy to armchair quarterback with a rewind and freeze button after an event.


Huh?
The rest of the article based on the op just explains more sensitivity methods and other etc. focused on kids.
So do you mean to ask "should this apply to not just kids but adults too?

Other than that, I don't think turning police into social workers is a good idea.
Unless we stop sending police after crazy stabby ladies, and drug dealers with ak-47's, and serial killers, and gangs, and to inspect suspicious packages that might explode.


Huh?
Were they arrested or detained?
Huge difference between putting someone in cuffs and out of the way so they don't present a threat at your back, removed as a potential hostage situation, put out of danger and unable to wander back, and putting them in cuffs and taking them down to the jail and put through the booking process.

Were the children's (and were there children, plural, or just the one 11 year old child? Thought the OP and article was about one kid) parents actually placed under arrest?


I feel when you use terms like "blue klux klan" you have an agenda and bias which completely undermines and generally invalidates your opinion.


Great.
When is the exact specific universal age where all children become adults, capable of understanding and thinking and behaving exactly like an adult? Remember the 8 year old that killed 2 people in Arizona?
And what exact identifying feature universal among all human beings communicates their age? That can be seen in daylight or at night?


lol. I was driving up a pretty bad street near where I live the other day and saw a group of kids walking home from school (I think, they all had backpacks, it was about 3, there's a school nearby), and a few jeered and flipped off a cop car after it passed by, then seemed to be laughing about it. It was a quick pass, but it didn't seem like there was much fear there.


Based on a quick google search for the story noted in the OP it seems the cops guns were already drawn as they were searching for a suspect in the area. The suspect was the little girls aunt who had stabbed a sister. Seems reasonable the suspect could have been at the house. Seems reasonable family may help family. It didn't seem completely random.

Based on a quick google search you can find the bodycam footage of the event and IMO the cops acted very professionally. They were relatively calm, and even told the girl that she wasn't being taken to jail, calmly and kindly saying "you're fine, you're fine, you're alright."
The cops weren't yelling and screaming, in SWAT gear holding automatic rifles on her, like during the Daniel Shaver shooting.

So, IMO, this isn't a situation where guns were "pulled" on a kid, and they were at a residence which could realistically be hiding an armed and dangerous suspect, stabby lady, so there is reasonable fear for safety.


IMO based on the bodycam audio there was some compassion towards the kid.

Toim4UHere,

Welcoome back ,,,well your view is right but we still have to make sure our children don't get mistreated. well I'm glad to hear the outreach program isn't new I guess the officers have to reinforce the program.

I'd imagine the programs are in place but it depends on many different factors as to whether they are effective or not.
Population density (town vs city), police workload and force size, crime rates and types.
It also has a lot to do with the attitudes the local populace has with police. Do they trust the police? Is there history of police abusing residents? If the police presence is seen as an opposing force, no outreach program will be effective.

To protect and serve means to protect and serve themselves, not the public.

Anyone not in a uniform is the enemy, or at least under suspicion.

When has 'LOGICAL' and 'PUBLIC SERVANT' ever coincided ?

Remove the profitability of the jail systems, and humanity may return to the legal/lawful systems.