Do you believe Climate Change is happening ...

if so why ...


If you believe in the science of Climate Change...
it is happening ...

Climate Change ...

Will those believe when the earth is used up and
people die from this exposure...


what will it take to believe ...


I personally don't care about Climate change and
what it is called ... always a fight ... but is not a game ...
to win ... know one will win becouse they will never be on the same pg.


I would just like to see the earth cleaner ... like our oceans ...
like the air ... and all that is being destroyed... be left alone ...
to renew ... for generation to come ... and for those to go a different rout then killing the earth to survive ... it can be done ...but some just don't care ... they care about the now ...not the coming years ... and like to call it jobs ...
to justify the unjust ...



I am guilty but was raised in a time when know one thought things where wrong or doing things that hurt the earth like it does ... but I try now ...a small part ... there are so many great ideas to make a better earth ... but I guess it is like our brains it is not being used all the way ... to over come ... killing the earth and our selves ...

I cover this topic in my blog post Science Bullies.

You can read the post by going to http://themoderatevoice.com/science-bullies/

Here are excerpts.

Judith Curry, Climatologist: "It is an empirical fact that the Earth's climate has warmed overall for at least the past century. However, we do not know how much humans have contributed to this warming and there is disagreement among scientists as to whether human-caused emissions of greenhouse gases is the dominant cause of recent warming, relative to natural causes."

Roger A. Pielke Sr, Meteorologist: "The term 'climate change' is itself redundant. Climate is always changing."

Certainly, we live on a dynamic planet in an ever-changing Universe.

This planet has had a "Climate" for around 4.5 BILLION years.
Much of that was a climate not conducive to human existence.

Of that 4.5 BILLION years, humans have been around for about 2 million years and only in the last 100 years have even considered climate and the fact that it changes.

Humans do cause certain changes in the planet's climate but so do plants, volcanoes, earth worms and every other 'thing' which happens to this planet. The Sun even affects planetary climate, the Earth's core, gravity...everything.

Our human needs of climate are merely a fraction of the scope of climate change and insignificant as a threat when compared to volcanoes, methane hydrate release or solar storms.

We are not going to destroy Earth's climate but we could change it enough to no longer support human life, over time. Consider tho, that one super volcano eruption could do it in one fell swoop. One Gamma Ray Burst could destroy the atmosphere completely. A prolonged instability in the magnetosphere could blow the atmosphere into space.

You can buy into the "sky is falling' hype or just use some sense.

Hmmm. I believe the climate changes, much like the human body changes over a lifetime.

I believe there are both natural contributors to climate change (just like there is to the human body throughout its lifetime) and there are unnatural and man created contributors to climate change, (just like there are human factors involved in how a human body changes throughout our lifetime.)

I would like to see us take care of our climate, to the extent in which we contribute to it, so that it is able to be enjoyed by our future generations.

You can't pour bazillions of tons of crap into the atmosphere, the air we need to breath, and not expect something to happen.

One person peeing into a river, no big deal.
Millions of people peeing into a river and you have changed drinking water into a poison.

Sure its changing. By mans hands

We live in a country that until relatively recently decided to " clean up our act" As have many European counties.

But take a look at the rest of the world, and they are pumping whatever they want into the air. I spent a fair amount of time in China and can tell you for a fact that they burn openly outside, plastics, rubber, chemical and God only know what else without any interference from the government.

India is no different. 2 very big countries there.. a lot of burning.

So how can the atmosphere not change over time.

Oh by the way I saw many, many containers of old computer trash plastic) being unloaded at ports tO be burnt out in the open in China. After they are stripped of anything sellable

And the vast majority of the containers came from... The U.S..A

a tad bit hypocritical, wouldn't you say.

Why not. The government is the strong arm of a group.
If people were capable of self governing, or even altruistic tendencies (as opposed to lip service and the facade, and that's just among communities and family, not global populations), there would be no reason or desire to have a government at all.


I don't really believe the Al Gore fear mongering profit model.
I mean it started out as global warming which was supposed to lead to New York and Florida and Venice to all be underwater by now, with all the coca cola offering cuddly polar bear babies becoming extinct, cats and dogs living together.
But that didn't happen so it's conveniently evolved into "climate change" so as to incorporate anything people want.
Kind of like "terrorism." And now disgruntled a-holes are "domestic terrorists!"

Other than that, man is part of the ecosystem, the environment, the planet. We can't exist and not influence it in some way.

I mean deforestation and improper farming techniques along with "climate" factors led to the dustbowl in the 30's.

Mega farms and corn production to help feed the world, provide energy, and put high fructose corn syrup led to huge erosion of topsoil, choking up the Mississippi with pesticide kills, screwing with delta formation along with human activity like levee making, massive increase in deer and raccoon populations in cities, leading to more lyme disease and plague cases.

Nuclear testing has led to an increase in things like strontium deposits in everyones bones and teeth.

Massive migrations to the southwest from the midwest and people bringing midwest flora, increased water usage, and the colorado(?) river peters out in the middle of the desert rather than flow normally.
Albquerque was sinking as the water table underneath was drained faster than it could replenish. Then they switched to river water.
Ooops, now the Rio Grande and San Juan doesn't flow like it did, and that's causing problems.


"Climate Change" is happening. It has always happened, especially on a local level.
The global fear mongering campaign based on computer models of crappy science and faulty data isn't helping anyone IMO, at worst it's a distraction from people advocating to focus on local problems.

I see it as little different than the ozone crisis.
It's all f'n related.
"OMG! CFC's! Humanity is destroying the ozone layer! Everybody panic! Everybody pass laws and let the centralized federal governments apply their dominant will! No more spray deodorant!
...Oh wait, ozone holes are a naturally occurring phenomenon, sorry 'bout that. Yeah, CFC's may have contributed to the increase in the size of the hole, decreasing their usage may have led to decreasing the size of one of the holes that are naturally formed in natural cycles. Or it may have done little at all. There's not absolute consensus.
In the meantime we replaced cfc's with hcfc's, which do the same thing to ozone in experiments, but to a lesser degree. We just watered down the diarrhea we're pouring into the punch bowl.
We came up with a great idea, we'll be replacing the hcfc's (which replaced the cfc's, because they both screw with ozone in controlled experiments) with hfc's, hydrofluorocarbons...uh, one of those things contributing to global warming...err climate change."


Then you're kinda screwed.
As long as there are people, and people keep making more people, don't expect a "cleaner earth."

IMO the situation is like a trailer park family. Parents keep popping out kids, kids wear clothes, sling their food, there's a constant line to the bathroom, and they're all standing there wondering why their home doesn't look very nice and the air is getting foul.
Well maybe if Billy just picked up his clothes, and little Sally would just crap her pants in the bathroom instead of while waiting to use the bathroom, and if Horace would just mulch the dirty dishes under his bed so they can grow more green beans rather than eat the canned ones with the huge pile of cans in the corner rather than stacked in the pantry, then maybe things would be "better."

Good luck with that.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/

About Watts Up With That? News and commentary on puzzling things in life, nature, science, weather, climate change, technology, and recent news by Anthony Watts

There's no escaping the politics of this subject, sorry. That is insured by the contradictory goals and interests of the people in power arguing about it, and the fact that it MUST be addressed one way or another.

The annoyance for me from the start of the political frakas over this, is that from the beginning, some powerful interests have been fighting it for the most egregiously wrong reasons. That is, because they disagreed with OTHER UNRELATED things, that those who were concerned about it were in favor of or opposed to.

Remember, in the first years of this, opponents were declaring that climate change was entirely a lie. That there was NO climate change going on at all, and that it was a plot by some cabal or another, to trick us all into adopting self-destructive measures to combat it. They kept that up until eventually it became very obvious that there IS a big change in the overall climate, and then they switched to declaring that though there IS a change, that it's got nothing to do with people, so therefore we STILL shouldn't do a damn thing about it.

I am a solutionist. And that means that when I see a problem, I want it to be addressed logically and determinedly. Not use it to make personal political gains for one side or another, and not ignore it because taking action would upset one side's ego.

As for the possibility that it is or isn't due to people, that is beside the point, as far as I am concerned. Whether it is or is not, what we do to respond to it is a matter of physics, not emotion-based responsibility games.

It's a bit like finding that your house is in the process of collapsing due to fundamental structural problems. It doesn't matter from a practical standpoint, whether those structural problems are due to shifts in the ground under the house, or to the builder making mistakes. Either way, the house is falling down, and you need to deal with that.

Thanks for all the info ... I do agree both ...
Man and earth change it ... but which ever ... something needs to be done about the pollution that comes with all the energy's we use ...

and what it seems to do to the earth ... you can go way back ...
and they will admit what they are doing is wrong ...
and pay the fines ...
but they continue to damage the earth one way or another... and take land from others only to destroy that land and water ...

personally... I know they will not stop ... but I just wanted to write this aloud ... of how unjust they treat the world ...
with out any care what so ever ... for others and how little the future means to them ...

its easy to accept climate change.
its accepting responsibility for it that is the stumbling block.

learning the powers that be. is a slow process with many wrong turns along the way.

So, the OP subject is not climate change, the subject is pollution.

You do realize there are 7.5 BILLION human beings on this planet, right? We cover large areas of landscape with cement. Erect barriers to natural migrations and destroy natural habitats of other animals. We use artificial sunlight which dilutes the view of the night sky and we use machines that raise the ambient noise levels. We burn fires, produce waste, redirect or dam watersheds, create and disperse unnatural compounds...attempt to change the natural balance of the ecosphere.

Our persistence to technology and our population compounds the polluting effects of our lifestyles. Our economy dictates the pollution ratio.
There are energy sources that do not burn fossil fuels but greed prevents them from being mainstream. Oil barons block electric cars because they will lose money if people don't buy their gasoline and diesel for their transports. Homes are still heated with natural gas even tho there are efficient electric heaters available. We still burn things for energy.
Every once in awhile, as a truck mechanic, I was called out to fix a truck that broke down at a landfill in St. Louis. Its amazing just how much trash and garbage one city can produce. What amazed me more is when I found out there were two other landfills just as big for that city.
Overall, people are dirty to their environment. We build over natural watersheds or divert drainage. Our streets and highways cause unnatural draining and create barriers to natural habitats.
There are large tracts of land that is covered with structures and concrete. When it rains the water washes our 'residue' into the land and down to the oceans.
There is a huge floating island in the South Pacific made entirely of waste plastic. Plastic doesn't decay like wood or paper. It doesn't sink out of sight like metal. It persists.

Being mindful of the pollution is not enough. There are just too many people. The only way I can imagine to effectively curb the pollution rate is to reduce the number of people on the planet.

I often wish I could travel back in time where pollution didn't seem to be an issue; however, the reality is each an every human civilization or tribe or cave full of neanderthals had different issues to deal with...

They never had solutions that came from within those different "governing" bodies, chiefs, or what had you that didn't result in an ending of that time frame...

The only constant in life is change. Once you have accepted that, you can either divert your energies into making it into something that you yourself have defined as "better" which someone is always going to argue with you that the old ways are better...

Or you can lay back with Shakespeare and simply enjoy the scene as acted in the play because one day your going to die and change back into whatever essence started your heart beating and then go on...

...am totally totally enjoying this philosophy section as well as the paranormal one!

because we stole the pole position the equator is NO longer where it was in the middle.
It's called client change not climate change.
we are going into True North & South Position

the earth's deviation or tilt was 23.5 degrees that makes up our pole
position axis the polar shift that took off the electric bar magnetic field due to our earth's climate change earth is on four circles.
arctic north circle,tropic of cancer,tropic of Capricorn,antarctic south circle.Also we had the middle equatorial position that part is all the way gone since 2010

the electro magetic poles have no bearing on the Earth's tilt...the E.M. poles have been moving and swapping for billions of years...

yep and the axial tilt has a proven wobble as well.

both of which add broader longer pattern shifts to the climate

Not sure why you say you don't wanna make it political when that's all it is... The earth was once a giant snowball, and once a desert...climate change has been happening since the earth formed, and will continue to do so until the atmosphere is gone... But the liberals tell you it's all your fault, and should pay money for it...

are planet did not have ice on it no where on Mother Earth ,it was a water World before the "Electric Bar Magnetic Field" that is not our earth's
Natural Magnetic Field your right it don't have anything to do with the tilt we have on Our Mother Earth's but also what your talking about has nothing to do with the "Bar Electric Magnetic Field",I understand our Magnetic Field.
Frist the "Bar Electric Magnetic Field" is different than the Magnetic Field.The Bar electric magnetic was PUT on OUR MOTHER TO DRY UP ALL THE WATER TO GET THE NATURAL RESOURCES THAT IS ON OUR Mother Earth.The Bar magnetic is NOT A NATURAL FORM OF NATURE NO WAY ,SHAPE IN FORM It's IDOLATRY
it make the earth field go differ from the natural nature against our earth's natural magnetic field.

And the anti-liberals tell us that we should ignore it altogether.

Not much real leadership going on here.