CLV 1Tim 2:4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.

How many can read this verse without adding something to the mix?

Jesus came for all mankind, not just a select few.

CLV Rom 11:32 For God locks up all together into/in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all.

According to the rules (the Law), we all should be punished. But God is a loving and merciful Father Who forgives His children and extends us His mercy.

CLV 1Tim 4:10 (for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers.

Who is not counted as part of "ALL"?

CLV Col 1:20 and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens.

Perhaps this is the result of an unbelieving heart? Perhaps it is not conceivable that God forgives all, even though He has told us He would, and welcome all to Himself?

CLV 1Cor 15:28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)

It is only by adding something to these verses.

CLV Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life's justifying.

We shall all be justified, according to the Scriptures. Who is not part of "all"?

CLV Col 1:20 and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens.

There is that pesky word again... ALL.

Christians seem to be especially guilty of changing His Word and adding to His burden (Matt 11:30). And adding to His Word does have consequences (Rev. 22:18 - 19).

Instead of praising Him for His goodness and love, and appreciating His ways and plans, we prefer to criticize and condem all those who hear His voice and know Him.

Good post, imo, bigd.

I too am of the opinion, as are most Urantia Book believers I think, that we are pretty much ALL going to make it at least to the "many Mansions" that Jesus spoke of (John 14:2).

I noticed your scriptures you include DOES NOT ADDRESS any of these points I added to the other thread.

and your scriptures cannot address them because they all come from Yeshua!!





I am fascinated by this idea of "hell." some say no and some say yes. we know many words describing hell mean the grave. but one thing is for certain whether people agree or not, whether they claim it is just a story or it's true, and that is the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.

before I finish my thought, may I point out that this story was told from God in the flesh Himself [Yeshua]. and according to Yeshua, before his death-burial-resurrection, the souls of both the saved and damned were held in a location that both the suffering and not suffering could see one another. one side was called Abraham's Bosom and the other side was called a place of torment.

in this story of Lazarus and rich man, the LORD GOD explained the rich man begged Lazarus to tip his finger in water to cool him off. this would indicate the rich man place of existence was hot and of torture. he also begged Abraham to tell his other family members to believe in God so they would not end up where he was at.

this seems like a clear picture that hell therefore is a real place and it is hot and full of torment...especially since God in the flesh told us so.

but there are other indications hell is more than just the grave with what we read about Yeshua. like when He [Yeshua] cast out demons and they begged Him not to send them to the abyss. this abyss is interesting because Peter writes about it as well where demons are being held right now. and these demons will be released during the tribulation. these demons committed sins God had instructed no angel to commit like having children with human women.

but if you honestly read the bible, you will understand hell is a real place outside of the grave. even David in Psalms writes about, Isaiah, and many others.

so in conclusion, according to the bible, and even more so according to God in the flesh who died for us, instructed us through parables that hell was REAL!!

Yeshua even stated gnashing of teeth and the worm dieth not. now, if you are a dead corpse in the grave. how do you gnash your teeth constantly when you are dead? you only gnash your teeth in a literal hell!!




the correct term is WEEPING and GNASHING of TEETH!!

so those physical bodies in every graveyard are doing this? hardly not, THEY ARE DEAD. they are brain dead and no longer function. they cannot weep nor gnash their teeth in their grave.

but yet, Yeshua stated this very term on several occasions [not just once but to different people]. so if they cannot weep or gnash their teeth in their grave, where at they doing this at?

the literal hell where Satan was cast down to [the pit]. and if you read the Bible there are levels of that pit [hell] and the abyss is the lowest level. it is so bad that demons cast out by Yeshua BEGGED HIM to not send them there!! why would the demons beg to not be sent to a place that according to some DOES NOT EXIST?

I totally believe in 2 hells. 1 being the grave. 2 being where Satan is located the pit that includes the abyss.

and Revelation states both will be cast into the Lake of Fire [Death = Grave], [hell = pit where Satan was cast down to]...

I will simplify it for you...


the DEMONS Yeshua casted out begged not to be sent to the ABYSS [lowest part of hell/the pit].

why would Demons ask this and why would Peter claim the worst of the worst of the fallen angels are trapped here IF IT DOES NOT EXIST?

Reserve,

to love God and obey His commandments and believe as Yeshua taught is CHOOSING GOD.

the married guy banging women committing adultery and seeing no wrong, the guy molesting children and seeing no wrong, the person coveting their neighbors possessions and seeing no wrong, the person denying God because they don't believe in God ALL fall under not choosing God.

why do I need to believe in Yeshua and His parables and commands if I get same reward as someone who believes in evolution/no God?

Yeshua did state we have to believe!!

oh that is right, you actually don't follow the Bible, you make it up as you go...my bad in using scripture when you don't believe in it!!

so you think there is no Hell, okay.

You say God forgives all? okay

so do you think he forgave Adolf Hitler?
what about Stalin?
Mao?
Genghis Khan?
Jeffery Dahmer?
Charles Manson?
Ted Bundy?

Because if they are all forgiven , what is stopping some deranged psycho path from butchering you and your loved ones only to be forgiven in the end.

There is a hell for those special people and they will burn for eternity for their heinous crimes against mankind.

Its all a matter of perspective.

Will the terrorist burn in Hell for punishing the infidels?
Will the pureist burn in Hell for purging the impure?

While I agree there is no Heaven or Hell it certainly is not for any of the reasons given.

It Doesn't Make Sense says it all.
Too many contradictions are needed to justify.

And you can prove what are God's commandments, HOW?



I never said we all got the same rewards. I said we would ALL (probably) make it to the "many mansions" that Jesus spoke of (John 14:2). "I go to prepare a place for you."



Where does Jesus say that? You "have to believe" what? What YOU believe?



No, I don't "make it up as I go," and you'd better be careful or you're probably destined to be banned from this forum, and if I get banned along with you, then so be it. Frankly, I'm sick and tired of you. And furthermore, this is the "General Religion Chat" forum, it's not the Christian/Bible forum and the bible is not necessarily the lingua franca here. WE DO NOT ALL HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU AND YOUR BELIEFS. And not believing as you believe does not give you the right to call other people's religions and beliefs, "CRAP," and deem them to be "LIARS" because they don't agree with YOU. Your bible beliefs ARE NOT supreme here, to the best of my knowledge. You should stop acting like you know it all and that you're the only one who does. Your over-bearing attitude is beyond boorish.

While Im not familiar the hindu religion or Buddhism, Im pretty sure the majority of religion forbids killing a human being, the exception war.

Terrorists particularly Islamic terrorists actually perverts the quran

They know its wrong yet they claim they go by their strict interpretation of the quran, and when its time for them to be judged well their maker will see to it that their transgressions against mankind for the promise of 72 virgins starts with a trip to hell.

without the virgins.

One post deleted for attacking other members. Stop attacking other members.

Eddie

Site Mod

If you are looking for clues, lookup and see itssymbologystupid

Is there any proof of a heaven, or a hell, or any god of any description ?

Perhaps most important for believers is that there is a Heaven, and that not everyone will go. Perhaps it is hell enough to know not all will have eternal life with the Father.

Hell is only for poor people,
The rich can't buy there way out

From iam_resurrected


The word "grave" is an English word. What Ancient term did you think "hell" represents?

Strong's

H6913 qeber, keh'-ber
or (feminine) qibrah {kib-raw'};

from H6912; a sepulchre.

This is the closest you can get to the word "grave." In Ancient Hebrew, that is.

"Abraham's Bosom" is not mentioned in the OT. There is no such place, except symbolically.

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus is just that, a parable. There are 7 specific reasons why this parable cannot be taken literally.



Since you have not named the "other thread" I am at a loss for what you are talking about. But there aren't any verses that tell us demons can be sent to "hell," if that is what you mean.



The weeping and gnashing of teeth you refer to is about Israelites who find themselves excluded from the Millennial Kingdom. But it would be difficult for anyone who was not raised a Jew/Hebrew to understand.

By the way, "weeping and gnashing of teeth" is not a term. A term is one word. More than one word would be referred to as a phrase.



Honestly reading the Bible involves a Bible that has honestly been translated. So I will ask you again, what is the Ancient term that your "hell" comes from?

CLV Ezk 18:4 Behold, all souls, they are Mine! as The soul of the father even as the soul of the son, they are Mine! The soul that is sinning, it shall die.



The word "grave" does not equal the word "death." A grave involves the physical body only. There is more to death than that. What of the spirit and soul? Can you find those in the grave?

Strong's

H8415 thowm teh-home'
or thom {teh-home'};

(usually feminine) from H1949; an abyss (as a surging mass of water), especially the deep (the main sea or the subterranean water-supply).

Much like the grave, the abyss involves only the physical body. The spirit and soul are ignored.

From mikey4yousweety


Is that what is called indulgences?

For those who still think that there is a "hell" in the Scriptures, I say prove it.

Show me the ancient term that the word "hell" represents.

Point of Information:

The word Hell is Norse in origin and does not appear in the Greek New Testament manuscripts.

However, the word Hell is used by English-speaking people in reference to the lake of fire mentioned in Revelation 20:11-15.

Please note that Revelation 20:15 states, "Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire." (NIV)

From Dodo_David


Another point of information.

Actually, the word 'hel' is Nordic. It is cited in the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century. A long time since the Bible was even written.

"Hell" and the "lake of fire" are not interchangeable terms. This can be proven by the verse...

CLV Re 20:14 And death and the unseen were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death--the lake of fire.

So was "hell" cast into "hell"?

But there is still no Ancient term that the word "hell" represents. And we have to include the OT in this. The words 'sheol' and 'hades' are actually the same word in different languages. 'Hades' is a translation of the word 'sheol' from the OT Hebrew.

So, if you still think there is a "hell," prove it.

From undrboss


First off, this is not just what I think. The term "hell" is missing from the Scriptures. If you think you can find it I would be very interested.

According to the Scriptures, ALL will be saved. Is this your list of those who are not included in the term ALL? Contrary to what the Scriptures say?

What you are doing it going against what the Scripture tells us. The word "hell" is missing from the Bible and there is no verse that says punishment is eternal. None. Nada. Zip.

CLV Prov 16:25 There is a way that seems upright before a man, Yet its end becomes the ways of death.

Its not up to us to prove there is no hell , you made the claim so its up to you to prove hell doesn't exist?

I cant prove that gravity is either a theory or law either.