Topic: The Rich Man and Lazarus... Literal or Figurative?
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BigD9832

Sun 05/13/18 06:39 PM


There are seven reasons why this story in Luke 16 can not be literal.

1. Although they lived on the Earth at one time, we are told that they are both dead. They could not be physically alive and physically dead at the same time. Yet even though they are dead they are both represented as alive in bodies. The tongue, eyes, and finger are all mentioned in this story. This proves that this story is to be taken figuratively, not literally.

2. Abraham is represented as alive. In Luke 20:27-40 Jesus tells us most plainly that Abraham is dead. He tells us that before God can once again be the God of Abraham, that Abraham must first be alive. The fact that Abraham is dead in Hades and awaits the Resurrection proves that this story it to be taken figuratively, not literally.

3. From Genesis to Revelation the Scriptures teach that the dead are asleep until the Resurrection. Those who limit this 'sleep' to the body alone do so in direct contradiction of the statements made in the Scriptures. The sleep of death is presented to us, according to the Scriptures, as the death of a person, not just his/her body. The Rich man and Lazarus are both represented to us as awake prior to the Resurrection. This little fact proves that this story is to be taken figuratively, not literally.

4. The account of the Rich Man and Lazarus upholds the authority and reliability of the writings of Moses and the Prophets. In these writings it is clear that the dead are dead and that the dead must be Resurrected before they can live again. Death is taught as the opposite of life, in the Scriptures. Furthermore, death is said to be of a person, not just a body. Often times the OT will express this as "he died," "she died'" or "they died." Abraham died in Genesis 25:8. Isaac died in Genesis 35:29. Joseph died in Genesis 50:26. David died in Acts 2:29.

If what Jesus said about the Rich Man and Lazarus were to be taken literal, then we would have to discard everything that the OT says concerning the dead as unreliable. Moses and the Prophets must be discarded and the Divine Inspiration of the text must also be denied. However, if the words of our Lord are taken figuratively then the harmony and agreement throughout the Scriptures is preserved.

5. If what Jesus said was to be taken literally, this would contradict all that God had previously revealed about the state of Sheol and Hades.

Sheol and Hades are the same word. The Ancient Hebrew term Sheol literally means unseen or unperceived. The Ancient Greek term Hades is the same word translated into Greek from Hebrew. We prove this by looking at Psalms 16:8-11 and then Acts 2:25-28.

Here is what the Scriptures have to say about death...

AV Isa 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can [not] celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

CLV Isa 38:18 For the unseen is not acclaiming You, nor is death praising You, and those descending into a crypt are not looking forward to Your truth.


And...

AV Ps 6:5 For in death [there is] no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

CLV Ps 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of You; In the unseen, who shall acclaim You?


and...

AV Ec 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do [it] with thy might; for [there is] no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.

CLV Ec 9:10 All that your hand finds to do, do with your vigor, For there is no doing or devising or knowledge or wisdom In the unseen where you are going.


And check this one out...

AV Ps 31:17 Let me not be ashamed, O LORD; for I have called upon thee: let the wicked be ashamed, [and] let them be silent in the grave.

CLV Ps 31:17 O Yahweh, do not let me be ashamed, For I have called out to You. Let the wicked be ashamed; Let them be still in the unseen


The nature of death is unmistakable here. The story of the Rich Man and Lazarus must be figurative if it is to conform to the rest if the Scriptures. Everything else Jesus said teaches that the dead do not live until the Resurrection. (Rev.20:4-6 & 11-15)

6. In Luke 16, after making it clear that the Rich Man and Lazarus have both died, the Lord immediately represents them as alive and possessing bodies. To take this literally would be to deny the need for Resurrection.

The teaching of the OT does not differ from the teaching of the NT in regard to death and the absolute necessity for Resurrection. In 1Corinthians 15:12-19 the Resurrection of Christ and the Resurrection of the dead are inseparably tied together. If Christ had not been raised from the dead there would be no Resurrection of the dead.

"then they also that are fallen asleep in Christ have perished"

7. AV Mt 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

CLV Mt 13:34 All these things Jesus speaks in parables to the throngs, and apart from a parable He spoke nothing to them


If the Lord did not speak to the multitudes except in parables, then the story concering the Rich Man and Lazarus must be taken figuratively.

If men (and woman) do not heed the word of God given through Moses and the Prophets, neither would they be persuaded by the words of one who came back from the traditional and unscriptural kind of death in which many believe.

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iam_resurrected

Sun 05/13/18 07:16 PM

the parable of the prodigal son, fig tree, and many others were representations of how life is in heaven or how the lost come back to God and God accepts them. it's the same with the rich man/Lazarus.

yes, all good stories. but coming from the mouth of God that also includes Abraham in said story, there are truths to it.

so, whether you want to believe it or not, there enough truths within each parable to accept as a fact!!

that is the beauty of a parable.

it's like me telling you what happened in the 9th inning of a baseball game without using exact names. my version won't be exact, but it will be truthful enough you can believe it as a fact!!
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ReserveCorp

Sun 05/13/18 09:37 PM

http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/rich-man-and-lazarus-parable.html

The Bible Study Site

Meaning of the
Rich Man and Lazarus parable

What does Jesus' parable of the rich man and Lazarus really MEAN? Does it support the teaching that that those who are saved go directly to heaven upon death? Does it teach that sinners (like the rich person) or the 'lost' are punished by getting tossed into the depths of HELL, eternally separated from God, family and friends, and made to suffer FOREVER?
Understanding the REAL meaning behind the rich man and Lazarus parable is critical, as countless churches use it as their primary argument to justify the existence of an ever-burning Hell. The New Testament NOWHERE uses the 'fires of Hell' or the threat of unending pain as a way of spreading the good news of the gospel!

A parable, like the one of the rich man, is a short symbolic (but not literal) story designed to teach some principle or lesson. They are a teaching method that involves a comparison. They use situations, events and circumstances known to those being taught to, like a bridge, to teach them a principle or convey a meaning that it not understood. In Jesus' case, he used them to convey spiritual truths and, in the case of the rich person and Lazarus, as correction. By their very nature they are NOT to be taken literally true in every detail.

Will pets or other animals be in heaven?
Why did Jesus use PARABLES?
What does Proverbs say about being rich?
Jesus' use of parables was not uncommon. The Jewish Rabbis of his day commonly used them as teaching tools. This is in part why he used them to correct the Pharisees (self-righteous religious leaders) who were unjustly criticizing what he taught.

Why did Jesus give it?
In the first thirteen verses of Luke 16 we find Jesus teaching his disciples about being wise stewards and that man cannot serve both God and mammon (money, earthly possessions, etc.). The Pharisees overheard what Jesus said and, knowing it also applied to them, roundly criticized him: "Now the Pharisees who were also covetous (greedy and lovers of money), heard all these things; and they ridiculed Him." (Luke 16:14, NKJV throughout)

Jesus tells the Pharisees that they seek to justify themselves before men and not God. After a few more comments he speaks a parable that is in direct response to their finding fault with what he taught.

The story begins
19. Now there was a certain rich man, and he was clothed in purple and fine linen, and daily indulged himself in luxury. 20. And there was a certain poor man named Lazarus, who was laid at his porch, full of sores (Luke 16:19 - 20)

Why did Christ refer to this poor beggar as Lazarus? The meaning of his name is 'assistance of God' or 'whom God helps.'

The Pharisees prided themselves on their righteousness through strict obedience to their interpretation of God's law. They also despised others, especially sinners and tax collectors (see Luke 18:9 - 14). The irony here is that those who truly believed they served and represented God would not help someone "whom God helps." They disdained someone whom God accepted.

This beggar was what we today would call a street person who had become terminally ill. He is portrayed as having no one that could or would help him - he was entirely on his own and had nothing. Note that Lazarus was in so desperate a need that he DESIRED to eat (but did NOT get) the food scraps that fell on the floor (Luke 16:21). Because of the depth of his plight, he was willing to eat food trash since the wealthy person of the parable would not help him AT ALL. In stark contrast we have a rich man (symbolic of the Pharisees) whose house Lazarus is placed in front of. He, however, is so callused regarding the human condition that he won't even let the beggar eat his trash!

22. Now it came to pass that the poor man died, and he was carried away by the angels into Abraham's bosom. And the rich man also died and was buried (verse 22)

In time both the beggar and the wealthy man die. Lazarus is "helped by God" to Abraham while the well-off man is still buried and lies in his grave.

Now note what verse 22 does NOT say! It does NOT state that the beggar went to heaven. It also does not say the rich man, immediately upon death, was tossed into some eternal Hell. The verse says the beggar is carried to "Abraham's bosom." But what does this phrase mean?

One of the definitions of "bosom" at Dictionary.com says the word represents something intimate or close, like a relationship. Likewise Lazarus is carried into a close relationship with Abraham (who represents faith in God and salvation). The beggar is allowed entrance into God's kingdom (but it doesn't state when this occurs)

We now come to the verse that, because of an erroneous translation of one word, has led countless people who study the Bible to believe in a fiery Hell where sinners suffer forever. The word translated in the NKJV, NASB, NRSV and other Bibles as 'Hades' in verse 23 and 'Hell' in the KJV and NIV translations comes from the Greek word hades (Strong's Concordance #G86). This Greek word is the exact equivalent of the Hebrew word sheol (#H7585). Both hades and sheol mean the GRAVE, as the following translation shows.

"And in the GRAVE he lifted up his eyes and was in torment, for he saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom." (Luke 16:23, HBFV, see also Acts 2:27, Revelation 1:18, 20:13)

We also find proof in verse 23 that this parable is not meant to be taken literally in every last detail. Both the rich man and Lazarus are shown to be alive after they died. If we take verse 22 and 23 literally, it would mean the resurrection of the dead has already taken place! The Bible clearly states, however, the first resurrection of the dead is a yet future event that occurs after the Great Tribulation (see Revelation 20:4 - 6).

Why was the rich man tormented in the grave? It is because he saw a lake of fire before him and realized the time of his judgment before God has arrived. WHEN is he brought back to life? In the second resurrection, which occurs during the Great White Throne judgment (Revelation 20:11 - 15). The purpose of this resurrection is not just to offer all mankind a first REAL chance at salvation. Its purpose is also to punish the incorrigible wicked by having them face their judgment and be thrown into the lake of fire. Is this, then, the HELL where people suffer forever? NO! The punishment of the wicked is to die a second time - for all eternity. The lake of fire totally destroys, for forever, what is thrown in it. Humans thrown in it are consumed and become eternally DEAD (Revelation 20:12, 14 - 15).

Father Abraham! Take pity on me, and send Lazarus to dip his finger in some water and cool off my tongue (Verse 24)

Seeing Abraham, the rich man appeals to him to send Lazarus to cool his tongue with a drop of water. What happens when one is suddenly so horrified with fear? His mouth goes dry. His tongue sticks to his mouth and throat! It is in such desperation that he cries for even a drop of water, which, ironically, because of his hard heart he didn't even give to others.

Here is some more proof why this story should not be taken literally in all details. How could the well-off person know who Abraham was when he had been dead for 1,800+ years? Also, it would be very difficult for the rich man to recognize Lazarus in a glorified body, as he had been an emaciated pile of bones and flesh and full of sores during his physical life. The difference would have been appalling. Additionally, this verse reiterates how the roles of these two men have changed. The rich man was without need of help when the beggar was in dire straits and now he is in a dire situation when the beggar is without need. In effect, Christ is giving a warning to the Pharisees that their state in life could quickly change, therefore they should not be so smug and look down on others.

Remember, my son, that in your lifetime you were given all the good things, while Lazarus got all the bad things. But now he is enjoying himself here, while you are in pain. 26 Besides all that, there is a deep pit lying between us . . . (verses 25 - 26)

Jesus got the immediate attention of the Pharisees by using Abraham as a character in his lesson. Christ is showing that one needs to live his life correctly today, not wait until the next life to make amends. These verses show that it was impossible for Lazarus to do what the rich man wanted because of the circumstances. The gulf shows the striking difference between a righteous spirit being and a pathetic unrighteous human being.

Next, we see the rich man trying to reach out to others. He feels lost himself, so at last, though he did not reach out to others before, he now sees this as his only possible last wish before he eternally dies. To think that he is taking in the whole scene and realizing where he is in time is not rational. In his thinking, a moment ago he had need of nothing. Now he is as good as dead, but believes his brothers are still alive. He wants to save them from this place, if possible (Luke 16:27 - 28).

'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them' (verse 29)

In essence, what Jesus was saying to the Pharisees (through Abraham) is "you (Pharisees) have Moses and the prophets" and therefore have NO excuse for your approach to life and how you treat other people.

But if someone were to rise from death and go to them, then they would turn from their sins. 31 But Abraham said, 'If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone were to rise from death' (verses 30 - 31)

Jesus ultimately tells us what is the meaning of the rich man and Lazarus parable. He was telling the Pharisees (who were self-righteous hypocrites) that since they did not truly believe and follow what Moses and the prophets wrote, no amount of miracles and wonders would be able to change their minds and alter how they lived life. It was the hardness of their hearts that kept them from truly repenting and serving God.
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BigD9832

Mon 05/14/18 07:51 AM


The Scriptures defines sheol/death…

1. CLV Ec 9:5 For the living know that they shall die, But the dead know nothing whatsoever; There is no further hire for them; Indeed remembrance of them is forgotten.

AV Ec 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.



What does the dead know? The dead know nothing. They do not know Christ. They do not know they are dead. They do not know how to find heaven.

Ask anyone who is dead, and they will tell you what they know. The dead know nothing.

2. CLV Ec 9:10 All that your hand finds to do, do with your vigor, For there is no doing or devising or knowledge or wisdom In the unseen where you are going.

AV Ec 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do [it] with thy might; for [there is] no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.


As the dead know nothing they have no knowledge. No knowledge so they can give no advise. The dead can not impart wisdom.

The dead can not do anything. They are incapable of doing anything with their hands. If you don't believe it, try hiring a dead man for a job.

3. CLV Isa 38:18 For the unseen is not acclaiming You, nor is death praising You, and those descending into a crypt are not looking forward to Your truth.

AV Isa 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can [not] celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.


We have said that the dead can not know Christ. The dead can not praise Him. The dead have no truth.

4. CLV Ps 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of You; In the unseen, who shall acclaim You?

AV Ps 6:5 For in death [there is] no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?



This is a very good point. It is the living that remembers the dead. The dead have no memory. The dead neither remember us or God.

5. CLV Ps 31:17 O Yahweh, do not let me be ashamed, For I have called out to You. Let the wicked be ashamed; Let them be still in the unseen;

AV Ps 31:17 Let me not be ashamed, O LORD; for I have called upon thee: let the wicked be ashamed, [and] let them be silent in the grave.


The dead are silent, they do not speak. They do not rattle chains or gnash teeth. The dead do not weep. The grave is silent.

AV Ps 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

CLV Ps 115:17 The dead cannot praise Yah, Nor all those descending into stillness.


Again, the dead makes no noise. They are silent.


Jesus even made this distinction, and tried to impart this to the Jews when He said…

CLV Mt 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."

CLV Mk 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You, then, are much deceived."

CLV Lk 20:38 Now God is He, not of the dead, but of the living, for all, to Him, are living."



As death is defined in the Scriptures how is it that so many so-called Christians pretend that the dead are somehow enjoying life? Isn't this 'life' even called afterlife?

Such confusion.

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BigD9832

Mon 05/14/18 08:04 AM


Here is an example of a fact...

CLV 1Cor 15:5 and that He was seen by Cephas, thereupon by the twelve.
6 Thereupon He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the majority are remaining hitherto, yet some were put to repose also.
7 Thereupon He was seen by James, thereafter by all the apostles.
8 Yet, last of all, even as if a premature birth, He was seen by me also.


Paul is relating some of the facts of Jesus' resurrection. This is NOT a parable.

A parable is a story that is made up. It is fiction designed to teach a moral. Jesus had many concepts that He put into the form of parables.

CLV Matt 13:34 All these things Jesus speaks in parables to the throngs, and apart from a parable He spoke nothing to them,
35 so that fulfilled may be that which is declared through the prophet saying, I shall be opening My mouth in parables, I shall be emitting what is hid from the disruption.


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BigD9832

Mon 05/14/18 09:15 AM

The word "hell" does not show up in Luke...

CLV Lk 16:23 And in the unseen, lifting up his eyes, existing in torments, he is seeing Abraham from afar, and Lazarus in his bosom.

There is no "hell" in The Book of Luke.