Topic: Which Did You Think Was "hell"?
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BigD9832

Tue 05/22/18 02:25 PM


Sheol - The Jews define this word as...
It connotes the place where those that had died were believed to be congregated.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13563-sheol

No punishment and no fire.
Literally translated it means "unseen."

Hades - It is the translation of the word 'sheol.' Unfortunately, it comes with baggage from Mythology of that time. Literally translated it means "unseen."

Gehenna - The Valley of Hinnom. This is a real physical place on Earth. It is a valley or ravine on a sulfur deposit. It was used by the Romans as a garbage dump. Garbage was burned from a fire much hotter than a normal one.

It has a sorted history and was used as a "Potter's Field" of sorts. Jesus used it in some of His parables.

Tartarus - Used once in 2Peter 2:4, it is translated as "jail," and relates only to angels, not humans.

There is no ancient term for "hell."

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Tom4Uhere

Tue 05/22/18 03:48 PM

Which Did You Think Was "hell"?

For a long time in my life I imagined Hell as that dipicted in Dante's Inferno.
Now, I don't think of Hell at all. Heaven either, for that matter.
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greeneyes148

Tue 05/22/18 04:10 PM

Well, either way its not going to be " tea with the Queen" down there but I'm going with fire.. otherwise you have to change the entire hell concept.. and that takes money and time.
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ReserveCorp

Wed 05/23/18 12:21 PM


Well, either way its not going to be " tea with the Queen" down there but I'm going with fire.. otherwise you have to change the entire hell concept.. and that takes money and time.



LOL!

Very good.
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ReserveCorp

Wed 05/23/18 12:23 PM



Sheol - The Jews define this word as...
It connotes the place where those that had died were believed to be congregated.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13563-sheol

No punishment and no fire.
Literally translated it means "unseen."

Hades - It is the translation of the word 'sheol.' Unfortunately, it comes with baggage from Mythology of that time. Literally translated it means "unseen."

Gehenna - The Valley of Hinnom. This is a real physical place on Earth. It is a valley or ravine on a sulfur deposit. It was used by the Romans as a garbage dump. Garbage was burned from a fire much hotter than a normal one.

It has a sorted [**] history and was used as a "Potter's Field" of sorts. Jesus used it in some of His parables.

Tartarus - Used once in 2Peter 2:4, it is translated as "jail," and relates only to angels, not humans.

There is no ancient term for "hell."




** sordid
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Tom4Uhere

Wed 05/23/18 01:51 PM

Back when religions were first establishing what is the worst pain someone can endure, being burned alive.
Now take that image and put eternity behind it...
Pretty effective deterrent for non-compliance with doctrine, ya think?
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iam_resurrected

Wed 05/23/18 10:21 PM


Back when religions were first establishing what is the worst pain someone can endure, being burned alive.
Now take that image and put eternity behind it...
Pretty effective deterrent for non-compliance with doctrine, ya think?








Just depends if there is an actual God of the Hebrews or not. Because if there is, and if Yeshua was really God in the flesh, in the Book of Revelation it speaks of the Lake of Fire. and these words come under the assumption from John's point of view, that it was Yeshua making this statement [Who would be God in the flesh]!!

but as far as things from during this time period to be concerned about, leprosy was the absolute worst. even today you are basically in a losing battle if you have leprosy. your body falls off piece by piece over a period of time vs being burnt alive for 30 minutes and then it's over with.

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Tom4Uhere

Wed 05/23/18 10:33 PM



Back when religions were first establishing what is the worst pain someone can endure, being burned alive.
Now take that image and put eternity behind it...
Pretty effective deterrent for non-compliance with doctrine, ya think?

Just depends if there is an actual God of the Hebrews or not. Because if there is, and if Yeshua was really God in the flesh, in the Book of Revelation it speaks of the Lake of Fire. and these words come under the assumption from John's point of view, that it was Yeshua making this statement [Who would be God in the flesh]!!
but as far as things from during this time period to be concerned about, leprosy was the absolute worst. even today you are basically in a losing battle if you have leprosy. your body falls off piece by piece over a period of time vs being burnt alive for 30 minutes and then it's over with.

Not to be a sticky wicket but most people in the churches at that time were not suffering from leprosy. Lepers were banished to colonies away from the population. Flesh eating diseases are bad, I agree but non-afflicted did not feel that pain.
But, nearly anyone cooking or starting/tending a furnace would have a sense of how it feels when flesh burns.
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iam_resurrected

Wed 05/23/18 10:44 PM

:thumbsup:
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BigD9832

Sun 05/27/18 09:27 AM

From greeneyes148
Well, either way its not going to be " tea with the Queen" down there but I'm going with fire.. otherwise you have to change the entire hell concept.. and that takes money and time.


There is no association with 'sheol' and "fire."

That was added later by men with the term 'gehenna.'

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Tom4Uhere

Sun 05/27/18 09:50 AM

Something to consider;

Religion is not only comprised of scholars who study it but also includes everyday people living everyday lives.
Most teachers of religion, unless the attend seminary school, teach from their interpretation of the bible they read.

As an insurance adjustment inspector in the automotive industry I learned exactly what each component of a car was called and how it is designed to function.
In a minivan, there is a structure that is called the
Left upper, inner pillar panel reinforcement rail.
Most people call it a brace. Some just call it a metal thingy.
While it is called many different names most people know what it does.

Hell may not be an accurate nomenclature but it is a common well-known and widely used word that most people identify with.

There is no need for me to explain the exact name and function to someone for them to understand what it is or does. "Brace" is usually enough.
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BlakeIAM

Sun 05/27/18 12:41 PM

Agreed. I have mentioned that several times in a different manner .

The concept is clearly there .
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BigD9832

Sun 05/27/18 01:51 PM

The Scriptures tell us all will be saved.

CLV Rom 11:32 For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all.

CLV 1Tim 2:4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.

CLV 1Tim 4:10 (for this are we toiling and being reproached), that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers.
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BlakeIAM

Sun 05/27/18 01:57 PM

No the Scriptures do not.
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Tom4Uhere

Sun 05/27/18 02:12 PM

Ummm, to be saved doesn't one need to see something as a threat to be saved from?
What if you try to save someone from a threat that only you understand?
Are you not imposing your will on them?

I don't need to be saved because I don't see living as a threat.
I don't see dying as a threat either.
To me, its all just how existence plays out.

My life is not full of sin, its full of experiences. My experiences, good and bad. They make me who I am and I like me. I certainly don't need saved from myself.
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ReserveCorp

Sun 05/27/18 02:16 PM


No the Scriptures do not.


Well, what verses do you offer?
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BlakeIAM

Sun 05/27/18 02:54 PM

One verse should suffice.

I John 5:12
He that hath the Son hath life ; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

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BlakeIAM

Sun 05/27/18 03:12 PM


Ummm, to be saved doesn't one need to see something as a threat to be saved from?
What if you try to save someone from a threat that only you understand?
Are you not imposing your will on them?

I don't need to be saved because I don't see living as a threat.
I don't see dying as a threat either.
To me, its all just how existence plays out.

My life is not full of sin, its full of experiences. My experiences, good and bad. They make me who I am and I like me. I certainly don't need saved from myself.


To answer your first question my answer would be yes.

To answer your following conjoined question I say the following, yes.

Now let me go back to your first question.
All have sinned. All are born with a sin inherited nature.
The wages of sin is death. Therefore that is what all of us need to be saved from IF we CHOOSE to be saved from the consequences of sin which is physical and spiritual death.

Due to our God given free will we can choose to accept God's plan of salvation or reject it.

God respects what He has created to such an extent that He will not allow even His overwhelming love to violate our free will.

God loves you , but He will not force His love upon you or anyone. Forced love is not love at all.

Why doesn't God save everyone?
Because He will not violate the free will He has given us.

Salvation is a free gift from God.
Gifts must willingly be received.

Our love for God must be voluntary.

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Tom4Uhere

Sun 05/27/18 04:27 PM



Ummm, to be saved doesn't one need to see something as a threat to be saved from?
What if you try to save someone from a threat that only you understand?
Are you not imposing your will on them?

I don't need to be saved because I don't see living as a threat.
I don't see dying as a threat either.
To me, its all just how existence plays out.

My life is not full of sin, its full of experiences. My experiences, good and bad. They make me who I am and I like me. I certainly don't need saved from myself.


To answer your first question my answer would be yes.

To answer your following conjoined question I say the following, yes.

Now let me go back to your first question.
All have sinned. All are born with a sin inherited nature.
The wages of sin is death. Therefore that is what all of us need to be saved from IF we CHOOSE to be saved from the consequences of sin which is physical and spiritual death.

Due to our God given free will we can choose to accept God's plan of salvation or reject it.

God respects what He has created to such an extent that He will not allow even His overwhelming love to violate our free will.

God loves you , but He will not force His love upon you or anyone. Forced love is not love at all.

Why doesn't God save everyone?
Because He will not violate the free will He has given us.

Salvation is a free gift from God.
Gifts must willingly be received.

Our love for God must be voluntary.

All have sinned
According to whatever particular religion you adhere to.
However, sin is how you look at life and the choices and actions you do during the time you are alive. It requires you to think that what you do is wrong. Even if a murderer kills someone without remorse it is only a sin if he thinks it is. If he has no problem taking another's life he did not sin. He doesn't need saved. He needs punished by society unless that society all doesn't see murder as a sin. When a zealot kills an infidel they do not see it as a sin and therefore need no forgiveness for a sin they do not acknowledge.

All are born with a sin inherited nature
Not necessarily. Some are born with no idea what sin is until a specific religion tells and convinces them. Until that time, they no not of sin so can't be sinners.

which is physical and spiritual death
Not everyone experiences physical and spiritual death because they sin. There are many that carry sin in their minds yet suffer no consequences.
There are more that do misdeeds that they do not even see as misdeeds.
Sin is something someone assigns onto someone else in an effort to control their behavior.

He will not allow even His overwhelming love to violate our free will.
However, religion creates conditions for free will. Rewards and punishments are a condition placed on free will. Needing to be 'saved' is a condition placed on free will.

He will not force
No, My God doesn't force love on anyone. Religion Gods do. This is evident by the need to be 'saved' and the promise of reward or punishment for compliance or non-compliance.

Salvation is a free gift
It is not a free gift. It is an implied reward for compliance to the doctrine of the religion. If you believe, you get 'saved' from sin.
If you do not see living as a sin, you do not need saved from it.
The gift only applies if you believe, which is a requirement, so it is not free.

Personally, I don't really care what others believe.
If they get contentment from it great.
I have my own contentment and mine works for me.
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greeneyes148

Sun 05/27/18 04:42 PM


From greeneyes148
Well, either way its not going to be " tea with the Queen" down there but I'm going with fire.. otherwise you have to change the entire hell concept.. and that takes money and time.


There is no association with 'sheol' and "fire."

That was added later by men with the term 'gehenna.'




How do you know what's down there Superman.. is it that x ray vision?