Topic: Pre Consciousness
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pumpilicious 💕's photo

pumpilicious 💕

Fri 04/05/19 09:17 AM

The following is from a friend, ty for allowing me to post it here.:two_hearts:

Let's say everything began as the "real" equivalent of ones and zeroes -essentially the most simple states -but there was no original programmer. Then let's say some dynamic force existed which stirred and affected them in various ways -resulting in various simple patterns and configurations -leading to more complex patterns and configurations.....
Only certain patterns and configurations -or processes -would be possible until they became an increasingly-complex processOR.
Complex processES require complex processORS -and vice-versa -increasingly -similar to how transistors can be arranged into logic gates, logic gates into more complex processors, etc. -essentially the same simple processes in different configurations -so on, so forth.
Simple interactions -things being simply aware of each other -become configured into more complex awareness, etc....

Anyway..... Do you think it would be more logical for simplicity to become the entire universe, the elements, physical life, etc. before self-awareness and creativity arose -or that they arose first and became the sort of processor which was necessary to cause the universe?

Why would it be less logical for a simple original self-awareness to develop from original simplicity -able to then mirror its simple environment in some early stage of memory -and itself within its simple environment -and develop both self and environment in a step-by-step process -than for the entire complex and purposeful universe, elements, DNA, interdependent physical life, individual identities awakening into already-extremely complex processors, etc. to precede such -without expecting a processor capable of the process -and of the nature indicated by the process?

(I believe one stumbling point is the idea that the singularity/big bang was the very beginning -and even perhaps that the universe is the sum of everything -which is at least suggested by the word UNIverse. Satisfied with disproving certain ideas about God and creation, why consider the matter?)

The inevitable course of "Nature" cannot be altered until it is mirrored in memory, a change is decided upon and the change is applied by interfacing with "Nature" -and that which is able to do so must naturally occur. Also... those changes -except when replicating what was previously possible -would reflect what was beneficial and purposeful for the "one" applying the changes. I am must precede I will -and I will must precede purposeful complexity.

The difference being... some things are OF A design -and some things MUST BE DESIGNED.
Some things are OF A purpose -and some thing MUST BE PURPOSED. The point of difference being true decision -it would have been or I could have made it otherwise -which requires some level of self-awareness -whether awareness of self in environment or the ability to have a perspective of one's self within one's self, etc., etc. (a bit of a house of mirrors -dependent upon number and fidelity of mirrors -and how they are arranged)

That which acts and that which is acted upon are one. We are made of the exact same things we experience -the only difference is configuration. Original self-awareness is where self and environment might separate -but only logically.

Thoughts?
Tom4Uhere's photo

Tom4Uhere

Fri 04/05/19 11:17 AM

If one is postulating but doesn't consider the opposite, the rationality is flawed.

What if none of it is purposed.
What if the entire existence were a random change of state and the resultant manifestations of random interactions?

What if all that is understood about the laws of nature and the state of reality is but a fleeting glimpse of an ever-changing duration of change and our relatively limited 'view' of it does not define anything?

Imagine, if you can, that duration (time) is a change in size happening at a constant rate universally everywhere. Everything increases or decreases in size as time ticks along. It can't be sensed because we are within the change and the change is happening equally everywhere.
To us, a mile is still a mile, a gram is still a gram and a lightyear is still a light year. Mass relative to us remains the same weight. With nothing to measure the change against (because the change is equally universal) there is no way to tell if there is a change or not.
Robert's photo

Robert

Wed 05/22/19 01:18 AM

maybe Darwin, things jazzing up an going back to nature, jazzing down, eternal In finite can't be measured though we can always symbolize it with an 8 on its side. Darwin allows purpose for those who can adapt or be helped to adapt by civilised participants
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Robert

Wed 05/22/19 01:32 AM

eternal infinity/universe+ as always existed and always perculated were included in the eternal I finite perculation,an one day of course if we can't escape the soler system why then we're up the creek without a paddle words like beginning end everything are all finite and it's of course another language when dealing with eternal infinity or language doesn't matter we have no power in a sense when it comes to the more than mighty eternal infinity