Topic: In the beginning?
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Robert

Tue 05/21/19 02:25 PM

In the beginning there was no beginning there's always been always there always will be you could call eternal infinity God if you wish, eternal infinity (space time) of course there's what could be called local beginnings and ends, the eternal perculation. So what's to learn? everything plus for knowledge is infinite we like to measure everything we can with equations though eternal infinity is immeasurable therefore not a finite picture therefore undisplayable unless with the use of a symbol, now then where to go from here? lol
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steve B

Tue 05/21/19 02:46 PM

I think we live on a placid isle of ignorance amid black seas of the unknowable. And perhaps we are not equipped to journey very far.

Do you like cheese?
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Robert

Tue 05/21/19 03:06 PM

Yes I do, that's why I like Cheese Central, the Moon!

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Datwasntme

Tue 05/21/19 03:57 PM


In the beginning there was no beginning there's always been always there always will be you could call eternal infinity God if you wish, eternal infinity (space time) of course there's what could be called local beginnings and ends, the eternal perculation. So what's to learn? everything plus for knowledge is infinite we like to measure everything we can with equations though eternal infinity is immeasurable therefore not a finite picture therefore undisplayable unless with the use of a symbol, now then where to go from here? lol


ya say your infinity is immeasurable
uhm time , degration , and i just fell off me train of thought
but there are many ways to measure something that is never ending or bottomless

now as far as the total , that part is immeasurable
i will give ya that one

but
i am still working on why most people think it started with a bang , could it not have been but 2 people with really big bombs (some thing that we can not even yet concept)forget the star wars planet killer , some then a lot bigger and badder and nightmare causen then that

hhhmm side thought
is the moon still made out of blue cheese but took us to long to get there and now it is dust
<Smurk>
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Tom4Uhere

Tue 05/21/19 11:26 PM


In the beginning there was no beginning there's always been always there always will be you could call eternal infinity God if you wish, eternal infinity (space time) of course there's what could be called local beginnings and ends, the eternal perculation. So what's to learn? everything plus for knowledge is infinite we like to measure everything we can with equations though eternal infinity is immeasurable therefore not a finite picture therefore undisplayable unless with the use of a symbol, now then where to go from here? lol

First I need to know what eternal infinity is.
The way I understand it, eternal is infinity and infinity is eternal.
Its like saying what what?

Next I would point out that relativity is key in how things are assessed.
What is relative to me is not the same as what is relative to a bacterium or a super-massive black hole.

Within the last century mankind has learned there is a reality that exists in quantum (the very small) but we have also observed super-massive structures in our Universe.
In the quantum, duration of events occur at a relative lightning fast speed to us. In the super-massive events occur at a super slow speed relative to us.

Our lifetimes are roughly 100 years.
The spin of an electron is roughly a million times faster.
The lifetime of a red giant star is roughly a million times slower.
What seems like an instant to us might seem like an eternity to an electron and what seems like an eternity to us might be a flash to a red giant star.

What I'm saying is eternity and infinity is subject to relativity.

Now, mathematical infinity is not a true infinity.
It is dependent on the duration of the calculation.
Time progresses forward.
If you started counting by ones right now and never stop, you can only reach a certain number before you die.
If someone else takes up where you left off and this pattern continues until there is no longer anyone left alive to add a number it is not infinity.
But if the count continues from some other means the Universe will eventually reach constant true absolute zero and all will stop which also signifies an end to the infinity count. Thus, infinity does not exist. Its just a really big number beyond anyone's present ability to calculate.

Then you have eternity.
The Universe is in an expansion phase right now.
It has been for about 13.7 billion years.
However, the Universe is a Universe that is subject to entropy.
Its flying apart.
As it flies apart it winds down and cools off.
At some point in time, all matter will be either frozen or within black holes.
As the black holes cool off and slow down the energy level of the Universe as a whole will diminish.
Eventually the last black hole will freeze solid and eternity will end because without movement there can be no time duration and without duration time stops.

Eternity will last until the entire Universe reaches true absolute zero.

The thing is, as a human being, it is better to focus on the right now, right now than to focus on infinity or eternity.
Live in the moment and take joy from your relative existence.

Reality doesn't care.
It has no agenda.
It makes no allowances.
Reality is reality whether one sees it or nobody sees it.
Make good decisions that are in alignment with reality and you will find contentment.
Fail to do that and you will know stress, conflict and delusional disappointment.
Its all relative...
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Robert

Wed 05/22/19 12:24 AM

firstly you say it's like saying what what to say eternal infinity well for me it's relevant example space time next you mention black holes quantum weather huge or small these are names we humans made up although there there to get our bearings in a sense looking at the accumulation of knowledge to crack the puzzle ain't going to do it why? because we can never know everything plus, that's right knowledge is Infinite, example to know it all is finight, example all the shopping is in the supermarket trolley and everything is painted within the boundarys of the picture frame whereas to know it all+ is infinight and therefore impossible though I think it's sweet how mankind trys to crack the uncrackable using labels example formulas we like to measure everything but we can't measure the unmeasurable!
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Robert

Wed 05/22/19 12:41 AM

oh and that's my other point you can't reach the max when counting yes we'd all die trying because example there is no end to infinity so trying to count it to you reach a total is futile because example there is no total to reach its infinite. the other point what is known as the universe 13.7 million years?
for me it's I finite and there may be spaces example huge+ gaps but I think best to look at it as 1 eternal infinity instead of doing the human thing and exams partitioning it up with human finite numbers such as example 13.7
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Robert

Wed 05/22/19 12:54 AM

so trying to partion eternaI infinity to 13.7 Millon years is really only going to slice the shapeless eternal cake
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Robert

Wed 05/22/19 12:55 AM

oh and infinite cake :relaxed:
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Tom4Uhere

Wed 05/22/19 01:03 AM


firstly you say it's like saying what what to say eternal infinity well for me it's relevant example space time next you mention black holes quantum weather huge or small these are names we humans made up although there there to get our bearings in a sense looking at the accumulation of knowledge to crack the puzzle ain't going to do it why? because we can never know everything plus, that's right knowledge is Infinite, example to know it all is finight, example all the shopping is in the supermarket trolley and everything is painted within the boundarys of the picture frame whereas to know it all+ is infinight and therefore impossible though I think it's sweet how mankind trys to crack the uncrackable using labels example formulas we like to measure everything but we can't measure the unmeasurable!

Knowledge is not infinite.
Even if someone were to gain the knowledge of the entire Universe it is finite to the Universe.

I have already addressed the place holders humans use to explain the reality they witness.
Dark matter, dark energy, black holes and big bang are merely placeholder names so we can form a common reference while considering them.
But when I refer to a black hole, dark matter, dark energy and big bang, others can form an idea of the same thing.
If I call a black hole a white singularity most people can't relate.
Black hole allows the person to form an association on the same condition.
That placeholder association allows us to talk or examine the same thing.
Without the placeholder, we would have no common frame of reference.

Now, consider we are discussing the event horizon of the Sagittarius A supermassive black hole at the center of our galaxy.
Everyone that knows anything about black holes knows the event horizon is the point in which the singularity's gravity prevents light escaping.
What most don't consider is there are multiple event horizons involving a white singularity.
The fact that the Sun is caught in the gravity of Sagittarius A is part of a different event horizon but it is still an event horizon.
The Milky Way galaxy is caught in Sagittarius A's gravity event horizon.
It is causing matter to spiral towards the singularity.
Eventually, the Sun will be absorbed onto the singularity.
Its going to take a really long time but not an eternity.
To a human being that lives less than 100 years it may seem like an eternity but it really isn't.

Infinite knowledge requires infinite input and the Universe is not infinite.
Its really, really big but not infinite.
Its going to last a really, really long time but not an eternity.
If you want more understanding, look up "Cosmological Decades" for a glimpse of the Universe's expanse.
A cosmological decade (CÐ) is a division of the lifetime of the cosmos. The divisions are logarithmic in size, with base 10. Each successive cosmological decade represents a ten-fold increase in the total age of the universe.

It has been said "eventually everything that could happen will happen before the end of the Universe".
I forget where I read that but it makes sense.
It has to do with random interactions of mass (chaos) and very long timescales.

Consider this.
Human beings are rather new in the Universe.
While relative to our history we have vast knowledge of the reality around us we are merely infants beginning to smile compared to the potential knowledge of the Universe.
We have literally just started.
Edited by Tom4Uhere on Wed 05/22/19 01:08 AM
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Tom4Uhere

Wed 05/22/19 01:18 AM


so trying to partion eternaI infinity to 13.7 Millon years is really only going to slice the shapeless eternal cake

Hubble has detected light that sourced from 13.7 BILLION years.
The ONLY thing it proves is that light was detected from 13.7 billion years ago.
It doesn't mean the Universe is 13.7 billion light years in size.
Any light past 13.7 billion years hasn't reached our detectors yet.

Its merely saying "hey, look, this light is 13.7 billion years old".
In 300 million years we might detect light that is 14 billion years old.
We might not detect any light at that distance as time passes.
In 300 million years the limit might be 13.4 billion years.
Problem is, we only live less than 100 years.
We haven't been measuring that distant light since Hubble detected it.
Our technology and time limits our understanding of the nature of the Universe's change.
We can extrapolate but any extrapolation is limited to our ability to detect and the time that we are detecting it.
Edited by Tom4Uhere on Wed 05/22/19 01:20 AM
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Robert

Wed 05/22/19 02:08 AM

the universe for me is more than 13.7 it's eternal trying to measure the unmeasurable is futile talking of black holes and any other part of the eternal perculation for me isn't really interested. just imagine an infinite stew bubbling vortexes black holes quantum happenings not that interested other than to day it's amazing love to observe galaxy's for me though trying to work out how carrots go around the beef bubbling up the lentils doesn't curry favour with me it's all you see eternal perculation of the infinite soup so measuring and saying really big or really small is s waste of time for me though I respect those who are interested in getting there measures out whilst privately I'm thinking oh the soupy stew sure
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steve B

Wed 05/22/19 04:42 AM

What was that about cake?
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Robert

Wed 05/22/19 08:25 AM

the universe extends forever knowledge is infinitely eternal, space time
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Robert

Wed 05/22/19 08:30 AM

it's just my view and you don't have to eat it!
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Poetrywriter

Wed 05/22/19 05:32 PM


so trying to partion eternaI infinity to 13.7 Millon years is really only going to slice the shapeless eternal cake


It is billion not million.