Topic: I think therefore I am
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pumpilicious 💕's photo

pumpilicious 💕

Sun 05/17/20 09:04 AM

https://youtu.be/LmxlcJFTaYU

Is this a dream? If it is, does it matter because our perception is our reality?

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Unknow

Sun 05/17/20 02:31 PM

True. We are processors at our core, so WE are real if we think.
There could be no deception if there was not something real to deceive about.
When we dream we process and manipulate information not supplied by our senses about the outside world, but supplied by our own imagination (or another source if another type of input is possible). We are still ourselves -still real -in our dreams, but the "world" is just information -or modelling, if you will.
We can do "impossible" things in our dreams because of the fact that we are modelling in imagination -and the "rules" of the greater reality do not apply (until you try to make a dream "real" by manipulating the greater reality)
jaish's photo

jaish

Sun 05/17/20 10:50 PM


If you people like experiential then you may like Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor's talk where she shares a rare insight on brain hemisphere & the nature of existence we experience

https://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_my_stroke_of_insight#t-364627


We can do "impossible" things in our dreams because of the fact that we are modelling in imagination -and the "rules" of the greater reality do not apply (until you try to make a dream "real" by manipulating the greater reality)


Interesting, the way you write - like Dr. Taylor!
:thumbsup:
person L 's photo

person L

Mon 05/18/20 03:59 AM

see the world in yourself.......never look at yourself in the world.......it projects your illusion..... ancient egyptians
Edited by person L on Mon 05/18/20 04:01 AM
person L 's photo

person L

Mon 05/18/20 04:01 AM

when we look outside , we dream........when we look inside , we awake....carl jung
IgorFrankensteen's photo

IgorFrankensteen

Mon 05/18/20 05:16 AM

I do think it can be very important to come to understand that what we do know of reality is ALWAYS affected by the mechanisms of our perceptions, as well as by the knowledge (and what we THINK is the knowledge) that we bring with us as we perceive.

I remember spiraling into a deep depression one day as a child, when I read that there was a measurable, albeit very short amount of time between when our eyes or other sense organs take in real information, and when it reaches our brains so that we can process it. I immediately deduced that I could NEVER actually live in the real world, only in the real past world.

I eventually came out of it essentially by realizing that there was nothing I could do about it, and that everyone else was in the same boat, so to speak.

But it also fed into what I was learning as I studied more histories, about how perceptions and what we THINK we already know, can alter what we THINK we see and hear and feel.

Effectively, mechanically speaking therefore, this very much IS a dream, since by the time we perceive, what we perceive isn't reality itself, it is the mechanically and emotionally and culturally processed RESULT of reality. Just like in a dream.

But of course the difference, is that a dream bus will very rarely kill you if it runs over you.

All that eventually led to my "May as well" approach to life. As in, my modified version of Rene Descartes famous statement "I think therefore I am," which I changed to "I think, therefore I may as well proceed as though I am."
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Seamus

Mon 05/18/20 05:25 AM

Descartes liked to spend time in the local tavern. One evening, after a particularly heavy drinking session, the barman asks Descartes "One for the road Renee?" To which Descartes replied "I think not" and promptly vanished :wink:
Tom4Uhere's photo

Tom4Uhere

Mon 05/18/20 08:37 AM

http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/thinkexist.com.html
We have tried pinging ThinkExist website using our server and the website returned the above results. If thinkexist.com is down for us too there is nothing you can do except waiting. Probably the server is overloaded, down or unreachable because of a network problem, outage or a website maintenance is in progress...


OMO (One Man's Opinion), there is a flaw in the philosophy that we exist because we think. Reality gets in the way.
It has to do with relativity and perception.

If a tree falls in the forest but nobody is around to hear it does it make a sound.
By relative perception it does not but from a reality perspective it does.
Sound requires a medium to propagate. Sound is a wave which affects the medium as it radiates outward. Since the tree fell in air, it does make a sound.
If the tree fell in space, it would make a sound in any medium it vibrated but since there is no air it wouldn't radiate over a larger distance.
If you have a person with no auditory organs at all and stand them in the forest alone and a tree falls behind them they will 'feel' the sound wave hit them.

So if you have a person that cannot think, they still exist.
They still have mass which interacts with other things in their environment.
People in vegetative states, comas and even our dead people have mass and environmental displacement. If they are laying on the floor in front of you in a dark room, you can trip over them. They still exist.

From a self-perception point of view.
Much of our own personality is a manifestation of fantasy but there is evidence that even a personality manifestation is malleable.
Amnesia, dementia and other brain malfunctions can make you lose your programmed self-identity.
However, the affected person still exists. Still has mass, displacement and radiates/absorbs heat.

Then there is the argument of discovery.
If thinking is relative to existing, nothing new would ever be discovered.
Physical sciences which develop real world technology based on molecular combinations would not exist because we could not see atomic arrangements and had no idea they existed until we discovered the world of the very small.
Most people have no idea how plastic molecules arrange or how the molecules stay together yet we all have plastic products in our lives right now.

This is because reality is reality whether there is anyone there to think about it or not.
We bend and blend our existence to fit within the reality, its not the other way around.
We try to change reality to fit our perceptions but it never works for long because reality is always there and our perceptional delusions are not reality.

Reality is final.
Reality is cold and stark.
It doesn't care and it isn't open to suggestion.
That fact scares the crap out of us.

So we invent little lies to make reality softer and easier to cope with.
We build delusions to cover up and warm up our perception of reality.
As long as circumstances align with our delusions, reality seems to go along but eventually, reality shows thru those delusions because reality is real and delusions are not.
pumpilicious 💕's photo

pumpilicious 💕

Wed 05/20/20 06:42 PM



If you people like experiential then you may like Dr. Jill Bolte Taylor's talk where she shares a rare insight on brain hemisphere & the nature of existence we experience

https://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_my_stroke_of_insight#t-364627


We can do "impossible" things in our dreams because of the fact that we are modelling in imagination -and the "rules" of the greater reality do not apply (until you try to make a dream "real" by manipulating the greater reality)


Interesting, the way you write - like Dr. Taylor!
:thumbsup:

I had never heard of her & her story is moving. 8 years to recover and I love her message.
Thank you so much for the link.
pumpilicious 💕's photo

pumpilicious 💕

Wed 05/20/20 06:46 PM


True. We are processors at our core, so WE are real if we think.
There could be no deception if there was not something real to deceive about.
When we dream we process and manipulate information not supplied by our senses about the outside world, but supplied by our own imagination (or another source if another type of input is possible). We are still ourselves -still real -in our dreams, but the "world" is just information -or modelling, if you will.
We can do "impossible" things in our dreams because of the fact that we are modelling in imagination -and the "rules" of the greater reality do not apply (until you try to make a dream "real" by manipulating the greater reality)

You should watch that link the poster after you posted. A brain scientist had a stroke and describes how it felt to analyze her brain from the inside while in the stroke.
I may spend too much time in my left side.
pumpilicious 💕's photo

pumpilicious 💕

Wed 05/20/20 06:53 PM


see the world in yourself.......never look at yourself in the world.......it projects your illusion..... ancient egyptians
:flushed:I've always looked at myself in the world & never thought twice about it.
Now how to figure out how to recognize it in me.

when we look outside , we dream........when we look inside , we awake....carl jung

The most terrifying thing is to accept oneself completely.
Edited by pumpilicious 💕 on Wed 05/20/20 07:45 PM
no photo

Unknow

Fri 05/22/20 05:12 PM

I ate too much junk therefore I have a tummy ache :(
notbeold's photo

notbeold

Mon 05/25/20 07:07 AM

I don't necessarily have to 'am', to think, nor have to think to 'am'.

As a spirit bodyless entity, thinking could not be impossible.
A human head/brain would condition and restrict thinking to only in a certain way, like an organic data filter. Without it, logic and order should prevail more often.
I hope I'm a lot smarter when free of the human conditions.

Sometimes I think someone else thinks for me when I speak, and I just channel it, and try to make sense of it later after I have said it. Someone else is 'amming' and hijacking me; ?
no photo

Unknow

Tue 05/26/20 11:35 AM

Actually, that is a witchy/sorcery thing -they call it "throughcasting"

(I'm not into that sort of thing -just have been unfortunate enough to be aware of it)

(you might be interested in the movie "Push")

To paraphrase a bible verse... anything is possible, but not everything is beneficial

There is not a call to repent of sorceries for nothing. (the power of which is demonic, though some people believe they have power or skills themselves)
Edited by Unknow on Tue 05/26/20 11:36 AM
jaish's photo

jaish

Wed 06/03/20 04:03 AM


I don't necessarily have to 'am', to think, nor have to think to 'am'.

As a spirit bodyless entity, thinking could not be impossible.
A human head/brain would condition and restrict thinking to only in a certain way, like an organic data filter. Without it, logic and order should prevail more often.
I hope I'm a lot smarter when free of the human conditions.

Sometimes I think someone else thinks for me when I speak, and I just channel it, and try to make sense of it later after I have said it. Someone else is 'amming' and hijacking me; ?


A bit scary, don't you thin!
notbeold's photo

notbeold

Wed 06/03/20 06:00 AM

Not so much scary as annoying, when I say things that can be taken different ways, and people naturally think the worst. Sometimes public speaking, I don't know where the words come from, because I'm not thinking or planning them, they just come; it's weird.

I think the illusion is a combination of everyone's perception over ages, and is a type of dream. It is built up in a 'living' collage, evolving as perceptions and understanding changes; and as major changes occur, physical and cultural.

If it is all a dream, where are we really sleeping. Somewhere like in the matrix movie ? Plumbed up and plugged in, oblivious to reality. We could be something vastly different to what we think we are. Dreaming our own collective hell, and living in it. I didn't consciously ask for, or plan this mess.
no photo

Prem

Fri 06/05/20 12:25 AM

Where are you when you sleep? That is also reality. The state of no perception :pray:
pumpilicious 💕's photo

pumpilicious 💕

Sun 06/07/20 04:18 PM


I do think it can be very important to come to understand that what we do know of reality is ALWAYS affected by the mechanisms of our perceptions, as well as by the knowledge (and what we THINK is the knowledge) that we bring with us as we perceive.

I remember spiraling into a deep depression one day as a child, when I read that there was a measurable, albeit very short amount of time between when our eyes or other sense organs take in real information, and when it reaches our brains so that we can process it. I immediately deduced that I could NEVER actually live in the real world, only in the real past world.

I eventually came out of it essentially by realizing that there was nothing I could do about it, and that everyone else was in the same boat, so to speak.

But it also fed into what I was learning as I studied more histories, about how perceptions and what we THINK we already know, can alter what we THINK we see and hear and feel.

Effectively, mechanically speaking therefore, this very much IS a dream, since by the time we perceive, what we perceive isn't reality itself, it is the mechanically and emotionally and culturally processed RESULT of reality. Just like in a dream.

But of course the difference, is that a dream bus will very rarely kill you if it runs over you.

All that eventually led to my "May as well" approach to life. As in, my modified version of Rene Descartes famous statement "I think therefore I am," which I changed to "I think, therefore I may as well proceed as though I am."


I've never really thought of it that way, but you're absolutely right.
Like everything we do is in the past, it is quite mind blowing.
I was playing with barbies & you were discovering/analyzing time. Wasted childhood I had, I could've been so much more advanced as an adult.
pumpilicious 💕's photo

pumpilicious 💕

Sun 06/07/20 04:20 PM


Descartes liked to spend time in the local tavern. One evening, after a particularly heavy drinking session, the barman asks Descartes "One for the road Renee?" To which Descartes replied "I think not" and promptly vanished :wink:

Now that's my kind of of humor!:sweat_smile:
pumpilicious 💕's photo

pumpilicious 💕

Sun 06/07/20 04:30 PM


http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/thinkexist.com.html
We have tried pinging ThinkExist website using our server and the website returned the above results. If thinkexist.com is down for us too there is nothing you can do except waiting. Probably the server is overloaded, down or unreachable because of a network problem, outage or a website maintenance is in progress...


OMO (One Man's Opinion), there is a flaw in the philosophy that we exist because we think. Reality gets in the way.
It has to do with relativity and perception.

If a tree falls in the forest but nobody is around to hear it does it make a sound.
By relative perception it does not but from a reality perspective it does.
Sound requires a medium to propagate. Sound is a wave which affects the medium as it radiates outward. Since the tree fell in air, it does make a sound.
If the tree fell in space, it would make a sound in any medium it vibrated but since there is no air it wouldn't radiate over a larger distance.
If you have a person with no auditory organs at all and stand them in the forest alone and a tree falls behind them they will 'feel' the sound wave hit them.

So if you have a person that cannot think, they still exist.
They still have mass which interacts with other things in their environment.
People in vegetative states, comas and even our dead people have mass and environmental displacement. If they are laying on the floor in front of you in a dark room, you can trip over them. They still exist.

From a self-perception point of view.
Much of our own personality is a manifestation of fantasy but there is evidence that even a personality manifestation is malleable.
Amnesia, dementia and other brain malfunctions can make you lose your programmed self-identity.
However, the affected person still exists. Still has mass, displacement and radiates/absorbs heat.

Then there is the argument of discovery.
If thinking is relative to existing, nothing new would ever be discovered.
Physical sciences which develop real world technology based on molecular combinations would not exist because we could not see atomic arrangements and had no idea they existed until we discovered the world of the very small.
Most people have no idea how plastic molecules arrange or how the molecules stay together yet we all have plastic products in our lives right now.

This is because reality is reality whether there is anyone there to think about it or not.
We bend and blend our existence to fit within the reality, its not the other way around.
We try to change reality to fit our perceptions but it never works for long because reality is always there and our perceptional delusions are not reality.

Reality is final.
Reality is cold and stark.
It doesn't care and it isn't open to suggestion.
That fact scares the crap out of us.

So we invent little lies to make reality softer and easier to cope with.
We build delusions to cover up and warm up our perception of reality.
As long as circumstances align with our delusions, reality seems to go along but eventually, reality shows thru those delusions because reality is real and delusions are not.

All excellent points.
It just baffles me how 2 people can look at the same thing and perceive so differently.
Especially in politics & religion.
The mind is a an amazing thing.