Topic: Creative Writing ~ I'm stumped!
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Tom4Uhere

Mon 03/15/21 10:44 AM

Science Fiction/Speculative Fiction: Extraplanetary Exploration

I've been wrestling with a different kind of imagination problem where I can't get an image of the idea or its effects on life in order to accurately describe it, not even to myself!

It has to do with motion in a vacuum. Specifically, spherical objects.

First take the Earth. Its motion is rotation (day/night cycle) with a wobble (season cycles).

As far as I know, all planets have a rotation cycle or no rotation cycle. Some planets rotate on an axis similar to Earth and yet there is at least one planet which rotates sideways (Uranus). Moons also rotate on a single axis if they are spherical. I believe it is very common in the Universe that spherical objects have one axis of rotation.

Then you have the motion of non-spherical objects in space - asteroids and comets. They 'tumble' in motion with no defined specific axis of rotation. They keep that motion until acted on by another force.

I've been trying to imagine a world which has two defined axial rotations which are as stable as Earth's single axle rotation. Like the Earth with its day/night cycle rotation but with an additional day/night - north/south rotation at the same time. I can't even imagine the motion!

What would the surface look like to a lifeform on its surface. How would it feel? Would it be dizzy? Would it develop/evolve a different body plan? Could life even evolve? How would it experience day/night cycles which I think would be more random than a set cycle.

What geological differences would occur? Would oceans exist? What would the the weather be like? Would surface gravity be affected? Would structural support need to be different?

Would it have many or fewer earthquakes and volcanoes? Would its plate structure be more or less fragmented?

Now, try to imagine a human colony ship gets stranded on such a world.

What would be their biggest challenge? Could they survive on such a world at all?

Could they build structures with designs based on physics governed by conditions on a single axial rotation world? Would humans even have personal balance or would they stumble around like drunkards?

Even normal star gazing would be affected. We are used to the same stars at roughly the same positions based on the Earth's rotational cycle. If the rotational cycle is changed in such a radical way, would humans be able to gain a common fixed reference?

Any standard navigation tools they might use would be inaccurate on such a world. There would be no magnetic north or south, stars would not be in predictable locations at night, even the star (sun) would be in a different place with no defined pattern of movement.

The planet's inner structure might be radically different. It might have two liquid cores, perhaps more? Its magnetosphere would change. It might be weaker and stronger depending on the rotational influence of each liquid core to the other at any given time.

NatGeo did a documentary video which demonstrated the effects of an Earth which slowly stops spinning. While it is interesting, it barely scratches the actuality of such a condition.

What If the Earth Stopped Spinning? - Full Documentary
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx_pawMRPAY

The changes the video shows depicts a slowing Earth and the effects it would have on the surface, people and animals.

This scenario I am attempting to describe is even more extreme. Yet, somewhere in the Universe such a world might naturally exist (the Universe is big - really big).

Building a science fiction story which depicts such a world and the effects on its natural evolution and its effects on a human presence would be a huge challenge but if done right, would make for a creative and very interesting read.

If any story has ever been done like this, I would really love to read it. If the author is still alive, I would be very interested in listening to them talk about their creative challenges and how they overcame the standard-view stigmata of publishers.

Since it is a SCIENCE fiction story, all conditions must be based on current science or active scientific theory. No superpowers without scientific basis, no fantasy aliens, no magic or magical creatures. I'm trying to make it as realistic as possible according to known science and current science theory.
FTL in this scenario has to be a given, as well as the technology needed to support a human colony ship. The story will start as soon as the colony ship crash lands on such a planet and there are human survivors. The ship is useless but mostly intact. The main drive and navigation parts are completely destroyed with no way to replace them.

I'm looking for science based info on conditions which would exist on such a world, up to and including possible changes in evolutionary life changes which could occur.

I'm looking for human reaction to such a world, not only physical but mental and emotional changes which are likely to occur upon encountering such radical condition changes.

Thanx for any suggestions you might have.
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DoofusMaximus

Tue 08/03/21 03:37 PM

Beyond me...

Have recommendations for reading, though

Old Man's War

Nobody's Safe

Spin
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DoofusMaximus

Tue 08/03/21 03:40 PM

Also...

Don't have any of your characters poke a stick at anything.

That never works out well (The Blob, Prometheus, etc...)
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Blondey111

Tue 08/03/21 04:03 PM

waving Very interesting concept Tom .

Curious why you feel the need to make your story scientifically correct ?? Continue to use that great imagination you have been blessed with . .

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Tom4Uhere

Tue 08/03/21 05:16 PM

Curious why you feel the need to make your story scientifically correct ??

I prefer to read 'hard science fiction' so if I am writing it, science is the focus not fantasy.
All fiction has a fantasy element. That's why its fiction.
Hard science fiction is generally more scientifically rigorous than soft science fiction.

I'm also a stickler for details which align in a story.
Important when building the environment workup and plotline notes...they have to jive.

It would have been nice to bend Stanislaw Lem's ear on this.
NASA is right up the road from me. Problem is, you can't get thru the gate without credentials or a direct invite. Maybe I could find someone at the Infinity Center. Problem is most of the people who work there are lo-level and public hires. I need to talk with a scientist specializing planetary dynamics and planetary physics.

Hence, why I posted this on a forum (who knows, maybe a scientist is reading the M2 forums...wait, nah).
Over the last 5 months I've been thinking and jotting down notes and scratching them out. Its still on my mind and wonderful to think about as I'm falling asleep.

If I'm still at M2 when I have anything to write (flashfic?), I'll do so.
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shakes-beard

Fri 08/06/21 09:26 AM

this may help you a bit. It's a simple visualization of a 2 axis spin.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AV5JinSviE

a man like you could probably make one of your own, paint a land map on it and then revolve the whole effort around a light source to simulate orbit.

You could have endless fun working out seasons.

It looks like there would be a season within a season. the mind boggles.

I recon the ability to withstand long periods of cold followed long periods of cold would be a evolutionary survival necessity as the hot and cold zones would shift around the planet according to the relative rates of spin.

what fun. :smile:
Edited by shakes-beard on Fri 08/06/21 10:04 AM
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Blondey111

Fri 08/06/21 01:43 PM

Tom waving . NASA has an earth wobble stimulator . At the end of the page are contact details ... nothing ventured nothing gained bigsmile
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DoofusMaximus

Fri 08/06/21 04:02 PM

You mean like it tickles the earth to make it wobble? rofl
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Blondey111

Fri 08/06/21 11:58 PM


You mean like it tickles the earth to make it wobble? rofl
I am waiting for you to press the big green button maximus and tell me what it does biggrin waving
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DoofusMaximus

Mon 08/09/21 07:54 AM



You mean like it tickles the earth to make it wobble? rofl
I am waiting for you to press the big green button maximus and tell me what it does biggrin waving


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Tom4Uhere

Tue 08/10/21 09:36 AM


this may help you a bit. It's a simple visualization of a 2 axis spin.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AV5JinSviE

a man like you could probably make one of your own, paint a land map on it and then revolve the whole effort around a light source to simulate orbit.

You could have endless fun working out seasons.

It looks like there would be a season within a season. the mind boggles.

I recon the ability to withstand long periods of cold followed long periods of cold would be a evolutionary survival necessity as the hot and cold zones would shift around the planet according to the relative rates of spin.

what fun. :smile:

That video really helps. I wonder if I could find something similar in Celestia? I'll have to look...

Given that life evolved on this planet with a wobble axis of rotation, its possible life could evolve on a two-axis rotating planet. Given that all other life requirements were met.

I've worked out a process that could initiate such a rotation. Similar to the process which created our Lunar orbit. Star system rotational motion can be linked to that star's formation and an impact of a sufficiently massive object could set a perpendicular rotation while maintaining the natural rotation as well. Once the planet solidifies and cools, life could arise creating a unique biosphere.

Where it gets tricky is describing how the crash-landed humans would experience such a planet. How linked are we to our own planetary rotation?
It would be a truly 'alien' experience.
If the motion is slow it would change certain things but if the motion were faster, it would change other things in the human perception and balance.
Could it change menstrual periods or internal synchronicity? Could it affect brain chemistry? The digestive system? Internal clock or even our perception and senses?
How might physics change away from our known norm?
Would gravity work the same? Would there be pressure extremes which relate to the unusual weather systems. Would there be periods of high radiation? How might the planets magnetosphere be effected? Volcanism, plate tectonics or oceanic physics? How would water behave?
Also, consider the gear and equipment the humans have. It was built for Earth-like conditions or space conditions in a ship constructed to simulate Earth-like conditions.
If gravitational properties change, would the equipment still function as designed? How would the magnetic properties effect equipment sensitive to magnetism?

So many unknowns. Plus, in the video the model is pristine 2-axis rotation. Nature could create a wobble effect. That would complicate things immensely.

Frankly, I have a ball with trying to work out all the details. It applies my mind to creative extremes. Trying to stay scientific tasks my understanding of physics and biology.

The interpersonal drama is easy compared to setting up the conditions. Its almost more fun thinking about it than writing it. I have some new notes to make in my outlines, thanx!
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Tom4Uhere

Tue 08/10/21 09:46 AM


Tom waving . NASA has an earth wobble stimulator . At the end of the page are contact details ... nothing ventured nothing gained bigsmile

I've not had any recent luck contating NASA via websites.
Back in the early 2000s I did have contact with a few NASA representatives via email but my focus shifted at the time and I couldn't continue the discussions, I've since lost the email contact info.

I did try contacting ND Tyson but got no response. I've had phone conversation with Kim Griest a few decades ago, haven't been able to find current contact info for him either.

Frankly, I'm out of the loop with many contacts lately. Essentially, I am starting over. I've even sent emails to School For Champions with no replies.
I spent months conversing with them before on a wide range of subjects.
Its like since cell phones hit mainstream, people in scientific positions have little time for unknown contacts.
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SparklingCrystal 💖💎

Tue 08/10/21 02:14 PM

MENSA?

Also, you've named the thread 'creative writing' but you only talk wanting facts.
How factual is the concept? It is anyone's guess and yours is as good as theirs. Can't you just base of the few facts that might be there and just wing your way through the rest, which is creative writing.
I can understand the urge for facts as in my writing I try to get as many things correct too, whether it's the psychology I use or the BDSM facts. But it is up to a point as after all it's fiction and should just be a good read with parts non-fiction.

Anywho, good luck!
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Tom4Uhere

Tue 08/10/21 09:04 PM

As I stated earlier, its 'hard' science fiction.
The story need to be supported by rational physics and other sciences.
The 'science' part of the 'science' fiction is just as important as the fiction, if not more.
Granted, the entire story is fictional. Most people wouldn't mind, except those who enjoy reading hard science fiction (as I do).
Stanislaw Lem
Martha Weiss
Hal Clement
Kim Stanley Robinson
Arthur C Clarke
Frank Herbert
Issac Asimov
Robert L Forward
Vernor Vinge
Alastair Reynolds
Poul Anderson
and many more authors have written interesting, thought provoking hard science fiction. These sre the novels I enjoy most so naturally I would want to write the same type of stories.
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SparklingCrystal 💖💎

Wed 08/11/21 02:08 AM

Yeah, but a shame that as it is you're not getting on with it.
That's why I said, MENSA. I do assume you know what that is. Maybe you can find someone who's in MENSA and they can help you. I do believe they're also quite hush-hush but might be easier than NASA and maybe someone in there knows something.
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SparklingCrystal 💖💎

Wed 08/11/21 02:43 AM

Also... the authors you mention... are there any references in their books saying what their scientific sources were?
Another option may be a science magazine, which I do assume will exist.
If you cannot get to something like NASA, try to get to someone that is higher up the 'food chain' than most who might have such contacts.
You could even try to write to one or more of these authors.
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Tom4Uhere

Wed 08/11/21 06:40 AM

I'm not contacting anyone in think tanks.
Some really good suggestions if I were already writing and committed to the story.

As it is, no deadline, mainly free time writing. Aside from posting it on a few forms, will never be published. I've already posted some works on now dead websites.