Kind of like you feeling defensive when you started your accusations. But whatever , we are both passionate about some of these subjects , and I hope we can continue to debate without overstepping our boundaries to far. agreed?

no not defensive Bart .. I simply asked questions to hopefully inspire debate . I cannot control your perception.

I seldom take posts personally .. especially in the political forum . .. of course we are good carry on

1) The Democrats KNEW the bill wasn't going to pass. But rather than not wasting time and money they brought the bill up ONLY because they believed, with the help of the MSM, it would benefit them politically.

2) The bill was brought to a vote without allowing amendments to be presented for discussion or a vote. That alone shows a couple things. The Democrats priority wasn't to pass a bipartisan bill and that they weren't interested in using a democratic process to pass the bill.

3) The bill as presented would have allowed abortions until the birth of a child. It would have made it so NO ONE or RELIGIOUS hospital could refuse to preform an abortion.

The bill would be seen as radical by most people, even people who aren't radical and support certain abortions.

I'm not anti abortion which is how many "pro choice" would label me , I'm not pro abortion which is how many "pro life" radicals would label me.

I don't think ALL abortions should be prohibited, I have NO problem with the "morning after" pill labeled as the "abortion pill" by radical pro life people. The reason I have no problem with the morning after pill is because there are times decisions are made in the throes of passion or when inhibitions are lowered that otherwise wouldn't be made. Also there is a difference between "live cells" and an actual life. I have NO problem with abortions in the case of rape and incest and abuse of mentally ill women is rape IMO. I have NO problem with abortion when the mothers life is at risk.

I DO believe "choice" begins with making the decision to have sex. If a woman misses three menstrual periods after unprotected sex, or even having taken precautions, and doesn't see a medical profession that is ONLY her fault since FREE services are provided to poorer women. I never agreed with the Roe V Wade decision (it is a decision not a law) that said that abortions up to 23 weeks was constitutional based on "viability". As medical advanced were made the "viability" time line changed so the "23 week" part of the decision should have never been included. That is FIVE months to decide and IMO that far MORE time than is necessary to decide to end a pregnancy. I also think it's immoral to abort an unborn child AFTER the gender is KNOWN because the woman doesn't WANT a boy or a girl.

But hey those are my opinions.....and there are pro abortion people who think I shouldn't have an opinion because I'm a man who doesn't agree with their opinion that ALL abortions should be allowed.

While science or religion figure that out, who's going to advocate for the murdered babies?

Hi Blondie,

Are you aware that most people who have abortions these days (I believe this applies to the USA as much as to Canada, the UK and much of Europe) are:
° In a long-term relationship
° Between 30 and 50
° Have no knowledge, or concern over, the medical state of the person they want killed?

We are NOT, generally speaking, talking about some silly young girl, unable to access birth control, nor a woman who was raped, nor about a child who might be deformed or sick at birth.

As to my thoughts for that tiny, tiny percentage of cases where a rape results in pregnancy.. it is a difficult one. I used to think that I was comfortable with that being an exception but it was hearing from raped women that has been changing my mind. Women who feel that it will be wrong of them to further the injustice done to them by killing someone else; though they might want the rapist dead, they cannot bring themselves to kill an innocent. So, I don't have a perfect answer in that case: I don't think there is a perfect answer. That is why rape (meaning assault of the type you mention, not the wide variants that are included under that label lately) is such a terrible thing and should be punished so harshly.

Women's autonomy is not being questioned, Blondie. Women have a choice. The question is, should they have the choice to kill someone else, or should they be made to think about it when they make the choice to have sex which might create that other person.

sounds very much like the blame game and entitled grandeur Douglas .. what about men .. and their role/choice. Shouldn’t they be made to think about consequences of sex ?? They may not have a functioning uterus but they do have a brain

Of those in a relationship .. how many are pressured by their partner .,no longer want to remain in the relationship.. are struggling with financial or medical issues . Statistics are only ever a snapshot they do not reveal the entire picture . Blanket rules on abortion are unhelpful and harmful .

We will never know for sure. Nor will we know how many of the partners even knew, since very few jurisdictions require the father to even be told, let alone have an opinion. Nor will we know how many times the baby was from the partner.

But one of the issues the Nuremberg Trials resolved is that nobody can blame another person for killing someone. "He made me do it" wasn't a defence for the Nazi war criminals and is no defence for anyone else.

if she had control of her body, then she would not get pregnant.
as far as I know it still takes 2 people to make a child.. even if is came from a test tube.
part of having free will and making choices is living with them after words. life is a verry precious thing.
ablack man dies from a white cop pressing too hard on his back. and the world goes into an outrage.
A white doctor that aborts 200 or more black lives a year, before they can even take a breath. so their mothers dont have to accept the results of the choices they made. gets praised. (sorry just a point of comparison of social values nothing more ).

it's a hot topic ,and one not easily answered. it is up to the woman, and her doctor. the father has no rights.
the mother dont even have to tell him. either way. she chooses, it is something she has to live with.. that is why so many women find they cant, and kill them selves afterwords.

if R V W gets overturned, all that happens is it becomes a state issue and it will no longer be a federal one.
their right to end a pregnancy wont be taken from them.

If the argument coming from the pro choice side is that they are worried that the state they live in will enforce strict restrictions on abortions , like Texas or Florida instead of Federal law. In that scenario Liberal states will get more liberal and same with Republican states. Or would it lead to quickie abortion clinics just over the border of the nearest liberal run state. Kind of like how you get your fireworks if they are illegal in your state. Understand what we hear on our news outlets , no matter which one we listen to” it’s just hear say until we get the actual ruling.

Many states have "trigger" laws which if federal law in effect says it's up to the states will automatically revert to pre Roe bans.

This will force some women seeking legal abortions to travel thousands of miles

if thats the case, then they should be drawing up potations to change their local state laws,
even if it reverts back. which all this hoopla may be about nothing since right now this is just a leaked internal debate. between judges that comes up from time to time nothing more. it still has to be reviewed by state attorneys to see if those old laws cab still be enforced, statutes in the laws may have changed which would make then unenforceable today,

The latest Gallup data shows that most women are pro-life and even are more pro-life than men.

Fifty-one percent of women consider themselves pro-life, according to the poll, while 46 percent of men do. 43 percent of women and 48 percent of men call themselves pro-choice.

According to Gallup’s other abortion-related polls it shows a majority of people are somewhere in the between "pro-life" and "pro-choice" absolutists.

24 percent of women but 18 percent of men say abortion should be illegal in “ALL circumstances.”

24 percent of women and 25 percent of men say it should be legal in "ALL circumstances".

50 percent of women but 56 percent of men say it should be “legal under CERTAIN circumstances.”

The results of Gallup's own polls which don't align is why I don't have much faith in polls. But it doesn't surprise me that most people are in the middle, that most people aren't absolutists and that abortion isn't an all or nothing issue for most people.
But like any issue that is controversial it's the loudest voices on both sides that gets media coverage while the majority is largely ignored.

I used to be very much a fence-sitter on the issue, thinking that 24 weeks was too late but only because a 21-week now has a survival chance.

Then New York came up with the idea of abortion up to - and even at the point of - birth.

Then I traced the movement for that back into the United Nations where they use the phrase 'post-birth abortion'. Just think about that and work out what it means.

That made me look into the realities of what abortion is, and why it is happening. That all abortion is being pushed to crush society and make us care less for our fellow humans. And I came out strongly against all abortion, because it is just the thin end of a very fat, highly profitable and ugly wedge.