As you may know, I'm trying to develop a guidebook for Indian parents. No, not asking them to turn their kids to Spelling B or math prodigies or anything like that. To me, it's stealing away their childhood under pretext of false glory.

Something more like enjoying the outdoors - city kids here have almost nil playing grounds; gifting toys appropriate for their age, and not toys that fathers like, etc.

So I hit upon a sunrise moment. Here's the draft:



There's something fundamentally wrong in this narrative. Like kids need to go to the potty.

This means parents have to deny themselves an early morning excursions on weekends till kids grow older. What a shame.

Question is, how may kids be trained? Like skip dinner the night before or a 'trial run', like a quick drive towards the beach and back?

Any suggestions - to make family adventures practicable? Thanks in advance.

Or settle for showing the sunrise on the smart phone

Education is not a false glory.

Your example indicates building family integrity which is just as important as education.

When my kids were young we exposed them to different aspects of nature.

From holding the toddlers up to a tree branch to touch the leaves and branch bark to wading in streams to build makeshift dams with rocks.

Sunrise and sunsets were great learning opportunities for explaining science.
We talked about the scary thunderstorms and snow storms which changed their fear to amazement.

Nearly all aspects of life were explained and discussed. From why we work to why we pay bills to why some foods should be kept to make meals.

My children at 7 years old preferred a veggy tray over candy and chips because they knew why they needed to eat right.

As parents, our jobs are to teach our children about life (even the messy parts) so when they grow up they have the knowledge needed to survive on their own.

Reading, riting & rithmatic are part of life too.

By 6 or 7 years of age, the beach should be much more than a sunrise. Many things to learn there.

Am I glad I asked!

My mother seems to have an older view. I called her up just before your post. She's 85 and was saying, it's difficult to wake up kids to see sunrises. They are forced to get off the bed at 6 because of school. Weekends are theirs. (Small town life)

'Till they are 9 or 10, it's all kiddy stuff - At 10, bits of adult thinking begin to settle in their minds.' - Made sense, by 10 they have completed primary school.

Clearly children living in cities are at a great disadvantage.

I'm not sure I understand. What's wrong with going to the beach on the weekends? And why do parents need to "deny themselves weekend excursions to the beach until kids grow older"? And why can't the kids go to the potty before they leave? Unless I'm missing something? I think we need more information.

I don't think taking kids to the beach is a good idea ... I mean they haven't really worked hard enough to earn such a vacation ...

Hi Bonny,
Children aged 7 and 8 - Class 1 & 2
As i said, if getting them out of bed is a project
may be the biological cycle is dominant and their control over their bodies relatively less. Don't recall waking up my daughter around 4 or 4:30 am - so I don't know.

Age 10 onwards - they seem to be in charge.

I would welcome your opinion though. If it is in favor of 7 or 8-year-olds - its valuable info.
Thanks

Haha. In fact, fathers here still do think on those lines, rewarding good work

Mothers, 'punishing bad behavior'

A generation in India survived between these two policies.

So, are you saying that you can't take kids to the beach to watch the sunrise because they will probably need to go to the bathroom? How far away is the beach? How many hours would the sunrise trip last?

I'm a teacher. Last year I taught Grade 2 (7- & 8-year-olds), this year I teach Grade 1 (6- & 7-year-olds). I think you're underestimating kids this age. I have maybe three students this year in Grade 1 who ask to go pretty frequently, meaning once every couple of hours (although I think sometimes it's just because they want to leave the room and get a break from doing class work). However, most can hold it much longer than I can! I have a couple students who go the entire day without asking to go to the toilet. We are going on a field trip next week, which will last about three hours. I fully expect my students to use the toilet before we leave and not have to go again until we return to school. I'd expect the same of kids in Kindergarten (ages 5 turning 6). When I taught Kindergarten they were fine on 3-hour field trips too--no potty breaks necessary, as long as they went before we left. Younger than 5 I'd be more cautious. Kids are all different, of course, and there are always exceptions, but after 20 years of teaching, these are my general observations. Hope that helps. :)

What worried me was the timings:

Sunrise this month around 5:15
Less travel time: 30 mins
Less prep time: 30 mins
Kids would be in a fuzzy state waking at 4:15 am


Update: Sunrise in Jan 6:30 am - makes it feasible.

https://sunrise-sunset.org/calendar

Thanks Bonnie - for the push.

Go through all that fuss to watch the sunrise and then go back home?????
When we go to the beach it's to spend the day there, building castle, swimming, etc.
Maybe you could change it to watch the sunset.
And kids of 7-8 yrs old don't go on a potty, they have bladder control and go to the bathroom to sit on a toilet.
Also, before breakfast? Sod that! At the very least make sandwiches to take with you and a huge pot of coffee for mum & dad and other drinks for the kids.
Nevertheless, I don't see the point of going through all that to only watch the sunrise and then go back home again.
Children want to play! So that's what you cater for.

Hi Crystal,
Thank you.
Always treasured your opinion, haha.


Agreed. for some of us (me) entire childhood was play. So when Tom posted, started recalling those moments with parents - although intense, were far and few

You know how life in Asia is. 6-day-weeks / rush time / hot & humid climate. Lately, increasing job insecurity, inflation, oil or no oil, annual inflation varies from 8% to 12% - every year.

Result: Fathers hardly see their children. Parent's dependency on grandparents & schools keeps increasing. Here, in high schools, its 'study for tests'.

So when teacher says:


To me it suggests / confirms taking a small break from the routine and considering options where entertainment + educational = memorable shared moments. Just exploring this theme and leaving it to parents. TY. I needed to talk this through for myself.
--xx

Thanks to all,
This thread's been a series of 'wow' moments

Hi Jai

I think with young children you do need to consider fatigue .. I am not sure waking them so early the day before a school day is such a great idea . Perhaps a bit more planning . . Like during school holidays .

If toileting is a parent’s main concern .. either choose a location with public toilets close by or take an emergency toilet … (eg) a bucket with a lid . Where there is a will there is a way

I get the issue with little time, heat & humidity etc. But isn't it nice and cooler at the beach?
I remember going to West Java, Anjer beach, which was great. Although we did avoid the full sun/heat of the late morning/early afternoon.
But certainly a few hours in the morning should be possible? And back home before it gets too hot?
That way the family has more time and quality time is so important! That's why it'd be such a shame to rush over there, also in a way waste of petrol, for a mere few minutes.
Maybe add a picnic at the beach with whatever people in India eat for breakfast. Maybe some incense stick too since you can easily put these in the sand.

Maybe a walk along the beach to look for sea shells.
Or dad can go fishing, especially if there's a son.
You don't have to make it the entire day, but a bit more than just the few mins of sunrise.
And you got to think of stuff that is fun and interesting to kids, not what adults would like.
I'm not quite sure kids would care much for a sunrise. Collecting shells or fishing with dad, making a sandcastle would be great fun for kids!

Hi Crystal,
I don't know how I missed your post.
Just looked up the net for pictures of West Java, Anjer beach. Wonderful.

You are right. Instead of focusing on sunrise it maybe wonderful to simply enjoy the beach / picnic. The sunrise moment can be for a later time like when they are 9 or 10 years old - and if they want to.

Some nice pointers. Good to hear these from you.

My school was populated by 80% farming communities.
Many kids were normally up at 4am and already did chores before school. A seven year old feeds livestock. Many of my friends saw sunrises every day, if they were not in the barn.

Seems to me you are underestimating your children.
Perhaps talking with them and planning it all out will help.
I remember family camping trips at those ages. I was so excited I eagerly woke at 4am and helped get the car loaded and watched the road go by. Didn't tucker out till about noon.

If you are close to the beach, you could consider making it a weekly/monthly event.
You could make a shadowbox to put keepsakes the children find. Take sunrise pictures of them and make a "New Day Photo Parade" photo album.
You might even consider allowing their friends to stay the night to join in the fun at the beach the next morning (with their parents permission of course).

Instead of 'forcing the child to do what you want, try peak their interest and let them ask you to do what you want.
Show them pictures of sunrises, tell them stories about the beach. Tell them stories about the beach at sunrise. Make it seem exciting and entice them.
Then hint that you could take them but it might be more than they can handle. When they ask you to go, say well, okay but its kinda hard to get up that early.
You make it their idea then 'give in and say okay'.

That's how I got my boys to clean their room. I made it seem like it was their idea.

Yeah, was thinking the same thing about different habits in cities and towns. Cities here, life is crazy. Kids go for summer vacations to grandparents who generally live in small towns and they get a big kick out of it. One has to book rail tickets 1 to 2 months in advance due to the vacation rush.




Yeah, again I was thinking on similar lines.

In the booklet, I'm presenting 2 options:
a) sunrise moments - as originally proposed

b) beach picnic moments - as Crystal suggested because while sun-rise may or may not be an awe moment for someone at 7 or 8; 100s of adults walk on the pavement next to beech but very few stand and stare at the sky at sun-break and

since Planets are in class III textbooks here, so sunrise at 9 or 10 may be more appropriate.

In fact, I was thinking of starting a new post for Class III kids, but got stuck thinking how boys fight during recess - worse than monkeys. And when teacher asks who started the fight - the gang of 4 goes silent. True story. Maybe in the new post.

Thanks all, for the enrichment including Slim Gym. Indian fathers say the same dum thing and return to sleep.
--xx

Maybe if someone is interested to read the draft - word document - no strings attached, I'm leaving my email ID in the profile page.

Or, if Tom obliges - he could browse through the document and comment - 'ok' and then you guys can pick up the copy from Tom - (and do whatever you like - as long as it's for personal or your school's use - just fine)

How's that with you Tom?

I don't think that's a good idea.

Y'see, common sense requires commonality. We are from different parts of the world with different cultures. Plus, my experiences with my children happened 30 years ago and probably do not quite fit even the children in my own culture today.

What you need to do is step back and look at your proposals rationally using what you actively know is common in your own culture/environment.

My input on such subjects are merely suggestion to consider, to create a view of what might work that you could use to apply to your own culturally unique circumstances.

My comments are never meant to be authoratative in nature, merely ideas which might create inspirational consideration.

Imagine a group of scientists are brainstorming on a project but have reached an impasse, their creativity and imagination have all panned out as ineffective.
Then some stranger (say, the custodian) walks by and says something just right and the scientists open a new train of thought which allows them to make progress or figure out something which had previously eluded them.
Sometimes clarity requires simplicity. Over-thinking can complicate a simple solution.

That's what I try to do...be the custodian or random guy who says that thing which opens closed minds.

Your project is 'your project' written for your culture with your morals and goals. For children who live in your social environment.

Right now, my children are dealing with grandchildren who have grown in an environment far from the one I taught my kids. Nearly all my grandchildren have a game system and a phone.
The are exposed to stimuli my children at that age never encountered.
Luckily, my children have fond childhood memories and pass those things to their children.
But, not every family is ever going to be the same. What worked for my children usually didn't work for my friends and co-worker's children.

I was personally involved with my family but not all parents have the time or the will to be.

Just as there is no encompassing step by step instruction on how to love there is no encompassing step by step instruction on how to raise children.

Its a case by case, child by child, trial and error duty as a parent which takes personal discipline and dedication to each individual child.