Elections this time are so exciting!
It's a real close call between the one that won last time and another party.
It's still swings & roundabouts who will win as not all votes are in yet.

Right now the one I voted for and I want up top is nr 1, but that can still change.

We had early elections as they couldn't work out their differences. We always have coalitions, not a single party, which in itself is FU.
And no one wanted to cooperate with the one that won the elections.

Now he could end up as Nr 1 choice, again.
How democratic is a country when the one people chose gets pushed out of the way by other parties that were not favoured by the people?
My idea is, if you do not want to cooperate with the one that is the people's choice... FO!!!

Democracy means the people choose who they want to represent them. Yet it seems the unchosen ones just push for what suits them?
Not sure what you call that, but not democracy.

It can take until Tuesday for all votes to be in.
Votes from expats but also from for instance Aruba, Curacao etc.

It's literally been decades since we've had reasonably decent government. The last one was totally absurd. Managed to stay on another 4 years even though his legal term had run out?! The man had his nose so far up the EU that he had a brown ring round his nose. He ruined our country, but lined his own pockets and future.
Sounds like a 3rd world country, doesn't it. Scary this chit is even possible in a 1st world country!

Fingers crossed we'll get lucky this time!!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/dutch-elections-rob-jetten-geert-wilders-results-b2855067.html

That looks pretty tight alright. But let's hope, that fascist will be kicked out

Geert Wilders is not a fascist! He's the one who wants to stop our country from being exploited. Which has happened for decades and has bled us dry.
It needs to stop.

Women and young girls aren't even safe anymore, get attacked, pulled off bicycles, threatened, harassed and so on.
We have become prisoners in our own country.

Aside from that, our own population numbers are declining, yet the number of inhabitants has increased a helluva lot!
This is caused by the vast amount of refugees we have to take on.
And most of them are from cultures that do not gel with ours.

It's gotten out of hand and has to stop.

It's utterly ridiculous that the majority of our people voted for Geert Wilders in 2023, yet he didn't become our PM because other politicians were pestering him and refused to form a coalition with him?
But... we are a democracy?! Meaning we get the PM & leadership we choose!
It clearly doesn't work that way.

That is fascism. Not him and what he wants. What he wants is what would revive our country, something we direly need.

That's your opinion, and I have to accept it.

But for me, fascism starts when people are classified just by the colour of their skin, their religion or their sexual preferences. In 1933, the same happened in Germany, and we all know what happened to Europe after that

At the end of the day, there is good and bad in all races or countries for sure.

I do agree with that, but that's not what's going on here at all. So the fascism label isn't applicable at all.
You can be okay with religions and other cultures but doesn't mean they fit into your own country.
Skin colour is irrelevant.
The way it is we are being discriminated, have less rights and get less and pay more for the same services.
And many refugees aren't even refugees but fortune seekers.
And they pose a serious threat to us -esp girls and women- based on their religion and cultural beliefs.
Maybe you're okay with all that, I'm not.
We too have rights and being safe in your own country is certainly one of them.

And I know this is the same in all western EU countries, including Germany.

That immediately sets aside Ukrainian people who are real refugees, and generally very well behaved. They also blend into our culture more easily. They're also very grateful for what they get.
That's how it should be.

Talking about feeling safe? Let me tell you a story about sonething, I witness every Friday night and Saturday night, going into work. Groups of drunken folks walking around in my hometown. There is vandalism, racial and sexual abuse (at least attempts of the latter), littering and urinating in public. I seen it all. And it's only Germans, behaving that way. We call it "Club Tourism".

Short but sweet, whoever is free of all sins, shall throw the first stone!

What I say now may sound weird since I come from this background and immigrated during the same period of time, so I basically benefited from this (chaotic immigration). But, and that's a big but, what she says is 100% accurate. I won't live in neighborhoods with a high population of Middle Eastern immigrants.. I have been to some of these places and it's not a place where you want to live if you're not one of them. and by being one of them I am not referring to the race! I am referring to the mentality. A Syrian friend of mine who lives in Sweden was attacked brutally by a group of Middle Easterns who live in the same neighborhood and left bleeding just because he's openly Atheist. I don't see your comparison accurate because the Jewish population in Europe didn't impose a cultural threat to the European communities. Nazis just wanted a racial enemy to fuel their populism, Jews fit well since immigrant communities didn't exist back then. Fascists will always find an enemy or even invent one... Muslim communities in Europe on the other hand are growing rapidly and may change the demographic situation in Europe. And guess what, this change isn't for the favor of the Western values and civil rights that women and men fought decades to achieve! Fascists / neo Nazis are always happy to find new enemies to increase their popularity. But to prevent them from doing so you should try to solve the root of the problem. I totally understand the concerns and even fear of the average European citizen. I myself have more concerns in this regard!

Thank you so much for your contribution, Cyrax!
As always very eloquent, extremely well substantiated and showing a lot of insight.
I greatly appreciate it!

And especially this what you said, which is exactly what's at the heart of it all!
And guess what, this change isn't for the favor of the Western values and civil rights that women and men fought decades to achieve!

It has nothing whatsoever to do with fascism nor racism.
(People these days are so quick to accuse you of the latter as well.)

Again, thank you! Reading it in other words from another person's view, a man at that, might shed some better light at what I meant :)

That has definitely nothing to do with Racism. Racists will always be racists no matter what happens. I am not taking them into account since they had been a minority before the 2015 migration wave.
What I really care and am worried about is the average European citizen who has since then changed his views about diversity and migration because of the unusual and unpleasant changes to their "Stadtbild" (I'm aware of the controversy of this word, but I agree with it). I certainly don't wanna see an image of the European cities where more Salafist beards and black Niqabs are spreading like mushrooms. It's not about the appearance, it's about the ideology behind this appearance that governments should worry about.
That's why I don't agree with the silly campaigns that try to picture the whole thing as a racist reaction to immigration... No! I know plenty of Germans who welcomed refugees in 2015 and are now ready to vote even for the AFD if the CDU doesn't come up with a real plan to control the situation!

All this stuff has been going on for decades, but at different levels and with different things.
When I was 19ish I had a temp job at a gov agency that did child support and pensioners wages.
Clients could come by during certain hours with questions etc. and my manager usually did that. The man had become a nervous wreck because of the flak that was thrown at him at daily basis, generally not by the Dutch but by people from Muslim countries.
Talking 1984-1985 here!
It regularly happened that a man claimed to have 15 or 18 children back in his home country so he got child support for all of them (!!!).
This money was sent to the bank in said country, the bank sent it back as they didn't even know that man, our government sent it back again as the man was entitled to the money, bank sent it back again, and so forth and so on.

I was still young, didn't judge, felt for people etc. etc. but that job made clear how we were being abused and sucked dry.
And even that wasn't new as the whole refuge thing began somewhere after WW2 if not mistaken.

In the early 70s I saw women in typical Muslim outfits for the first time. I was some 9 years old back then, was kind of shocking. These were Yugoslavian people btw.

It just goes on and on, a never ending story.
And I get it if people truly need refuge, but there are millions more in similar countries. It's impossible to fit them all into Western EU countries and cover all their expenses.
There wouldn't be anyone left in those countries and we would all go bankrupt, lose our entire Western way of living and culture and what you correctly said that many men & women fought for, and so on.
No more well-fare, decent schooling, healthcare and so on.

You know, I've never been scared. The backwater area I live in was always safe, few refugees and so on. But that is rapidly changing.
And I read last week about girls in my area being pulled of their bicycles at night by foreign men with knives, she got threatened and so on.
Knowing that this stuff now happens over here as well has affected me.
I had to cycle to the supermarket just after 5 today, meaning it's as good as dark this time a year. I didn't feel comfortable while that was never even on my mind.
In Amsterdam or Rotterdam, yes, not here.
Unfortunately that time is over.

And I'm not a racist or fascist. It's just too much and has been going on for too long (half a century at least).

Migration into Germany started in the mid 50s, when the economy was picking up again, but the homegrown workforce was too small. Many Germans lost their lives on the battlefield, in captivity or even in concentration camps. Some were lucky enough to emigrate, before Hitler's plans came into full force.

Nowadays, without migrant workers, sectors like healthcare or hospitality would face a total collapse. There is still too many Germans, who don't want to work in these sectors. They rather claim welfare, because of unsocial hours.

Of course, some migrants do the same. But still,
I met many nice people from abroad as well.

We just had a off year election here in the US… The dems just elected a communist for mayor of NYC.. ( unbelievable).. apparently the dems like it when we have high crime, high taxes, illegal aliens running the streets. This commie says he’s gonna make life affordable in NYC . If you can’t afford to live in NYC , you shouldn’t. It’s a expensive city. Two years under this guys rules, they will be ready to vote for success not failure.

No idea, I generally don't follow US politics.
But from how you write, what you say, it is clear you're an extremist. I don't like extremists regardless what they stand for or what colour of skin or which religion and/or political beliefs.
One can have very strong preference and beliefs but with extremism it comes hand in hand with hate and tunnel vision. Such people are beyond reason.
I'm not keen on that.

You got no idea what you are talking about, but your quick to label , folks like you is what makes division among people. Having opinions that differ from yours isn’t extreme. Grow up and get clued in on reality.

Migration is always important.. Especially where population is declining, but what's more important is to allow in those who agree with your values or at least respect it.
Unless you're looking for a population and / or cultural displacement 🤷

Exactly. Mutual respect is absolutely vital. For example, there is that nice nurse from Syria working in the nursing home, my mom lives in.
I wished him Eid Mubarak back on the day, he never expected that. But he was glad, that I showed so much respect for him and his faith.

Syrian immigrant is the second best thing happened in the History of Germany after the Austrian immigrant

Hmmm... but talking about a good person from Syria or a hard working person from wherever wasn't what the conversation was about.
I don't think anyone said they're all bad people.
Totally not the point at all.

Even with Ukrainians it's problematic and most of them are great and they fit into our culture much easier.
But there are almost 38 million Ukrainians. It's physically impossible to fit even a quarter of them into The Netherlands.
That's pure space, or lack thereof since we're already very densely populated, then there's the cultural & language barrier that does exist, and the enormous cost of their keep.
Aside from that they all need a house and a job. There aren't enough houses for Dutch people, has been a problem for years, and jobs isn't all that easy either.
And you lose your own identity, culture, wellfare systems, safety in your own country, it's at the expense of good education and healthcare and so on.

Diversification is good, but you can go too fast. It should be by people that add something to a country and system. Certain qualifications that are needed for instance. Then you get slower diversification and generally better adjustment of people as well.
This is 'emigration'. Always a carefully controlled system to prevent above mentioned scenarios, and oftentimes still too fast.
As it is it's millions who take from the system & country.

I believe the first rule of First Aid applies: first take care of yourself and keep yourself safe. Otherwise don't help so we don't end up with 2 victims.
We've past that point decades ago.


Personally I find it naive to think western countries can simply accommodate the millions of people in poor countries and/or warzones.
Do the math. It's impossible.
And... it doesn't solve anything whatsoever since nothing is being resolved in the countries of origin.
Taking in all these people isn't the answer.