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tombraider

Mon 02/19/18 05:09 PM

because that less is more than they were working for in their country.. Hell you can see that right now..so what are you talking about..let's face it minimum wage isn't even minimum wage ..it's slave wages people are already working for less just being a minimum wage worker..and what are they doing about it..

You honestly think that if you don't work for minimum wage that no one else will..look around..and we know that minimum wage is poverty level wages..

You really think you have any power..they will tell you if you don't want the job there are a million people waiting in line that will..or have you not heard the old adage that a half of loaf is better than none..and that's what you'll be looking at..

Negotiating for higher wages they will..ok like no one else has already been doing that..and how long has that taken and how many have actually achieved it..

You think not..here's a thought ..every time the cost of living increases and minimum wage isn't increased to reflect that..than the minimum wage worker is working for less and less and that's why minimum wage is at below poverty level..can you get by on that..

And as far as wages are concerned just like they can change the immigration laws they can change the laws as far as wages are concerned..

There are already immigrants here who are willing to work for less ..didn't someone earlier mention that..I believe I read that somewhere.. not to mention I use to work in construction I've seen it first hand...

tombraider

Mon 02/19/18 05:17 PM

Unemployment levels are what they are because there are so many jobs to so many people ..increase the amount of people and unemployment goes up..what are the people who can't find a job going to do after being unemployed over a long period of time..how are they goint to eat ..how will they feed their children..what would you resort to in order to feed your children..

Feed them integrity and honesty while you watch them become emaciated and sick or die..you will do what ever you have to..but there are no jobs because there's is too many people ..you have to have a balance..plain and simple..

You inundate the market exponentially with people and you throw that balance out of whack... spock

But like I said what's fair for one is fair for all..or don't you agree..where will you draw the line..you have to draw the line somewhere whether you want to or not..in order to take care of your people..

Argo

Mon 02/19/18 05:22 PM

i just wish republicans would make up their minds...

i'm a survivor of the rust-belt when the mantra of
republicans was anti unions and we need an free and
open market in order to compete globally with the Japanese
companies..you union people need to make concessions to
our labor contracts,and the tariffs must be relaxed if we
are to survive...

now the new mantra is protectionism and tariffs on foreign
imports...and bringing back those good jobs, that we gave away
30 years ago...

are republicans pro-union protectionists or are they
anti-union globalists touting a free market system ?
they can't have it both ways...

one thing corporations do like no matter what, is the idea
of paying slave labor wages and no benefits to the people
who make it possible for them to maximize the bottom line..

so republicans, if you are anti-immigrant scab labor..
it stands to reason you are pro-union job protectionists...

which is it ??

Tom4Uhere

Mon 02/19/18 05:43 PM

So basicaly tombraider, yer defending a negative...typical.

A postive person can change any negative positive with two words...

What If

Tom4Uhere

Mon 02/19/18 05:48 PM

Argo, I'm guessing you are a Democrat.

Well, I'm a person and my loyalties are where my heart and my reasoning dictate, not with some pompus over-blown idea of power.

Personally, I think political parties should be dissolved and shunned. All of them.

mightymoe

Mon 02/19/18 05:48 PM

so in your mind it has to be one or the other? Me personally, I wish all unions could be outlawed, all it does is drive up prices so some moron, who wouldn't have job if not protected by their union, can make 60 an hour for a simple job a monkey could do...and I think you know my thoughts on illegals..

So I ask again, are you sure it has to be one of the two?

mightymoe

Mon 02/19/18 05:49 PM

guessing?? I thought it was obvious...

mightymoe

Mon 02/19/18 05:52 PM

One thing people seem to not realize is that robots have taken over a lot of manufacturing jobs, and the government loses money too because robots don't pay taxes...nor does the ten people it replaced...

Tom4Uhere

Mon 02/19/18 06:03 PM

So life is about making money, money and more money.

Like I said, a critical shift in thinking is needed before any significant change will occur.
Without that shift in mind-set, any ideas will be refused for insanity.

People are so deeply seated in their greed and power structure they will defend it against any logic that doesn't support their addiction.

So, I'll sit here with my pipe, dreaming about a world where people actually are the good souls they think they are.

I'll lean back and watch y'all tear yerselves apart and smile.
I have less days in front of me than in back of me and I really don't mind.

When I die, The Flying Monkeys will be Released.

mightymoe

Mon 02/19/18 06:07 PM

it's always been about money and greed...that's how a capitalist system works... But we turned the rest of the world into it in the last 20 years...

msharmony

Mon 02/19/18 06:12 PM

yes, and more is still more, Mexicans may come here desperate but not stupid. those working for less do so out of a sense of no choice. those who had 'legal' status are not gonna be willing to lower the wages they get once the law dictates they get the equal 'higher' wages in place.

The influx of immigrant workers in the workforce, legal or not, has not stopped minimum wage from rising, I doubt it would ever start. As I said, if I need for my family and the LAW protects me making a higher wage, why would I settle for less than I could get BY LAW?

that and the reality that Mexican family size is shrinking, desperation to provide for more would also be decreasing, so numbers would follow the same 'seasonal' trends as always and not really suddenly upturn the economy.

Edited by msharmony on Mon 02/19/18 06:13 PM

Tom4Uhere

Mon 02/19/18 06:25 PM

it's always been about money and greed...that's how a capitalist system works... But we turned the rest of the world into it in the last 20 years...

So, I guess that makes it acceptable?
I guess that makes it inevitable?
{{leans back and lights the dream pipe}}
There's a lot of flying monkeys in here.
{{taps head with forefinger}}

mightymoe

Mon 02/19/18 06:28 PM

it's always been about money and greed...that's how a capitalist system works... But we turned the rest of the world into it in the last 20 years...

So, I guess that makes it acceptable?
I guess that makes it inevitable?
{{leans back and lights the dream pipe}}
There's a lot of flying monkeys in here.
{{taps head with forefinger}}

do something about it then, since it makes you so sad, but don't talk to me like I'm stupid or it's my fault... Put up or shut up, as they say...

Tom4Uhere

Mon 02/19/18 06:49 PM

it's always been about money and greed...that's how a capitalist system works... But we turned the rest of the world into it in the last 20 years...

So, I guess that makes it acceptable?
I guess that makes it inevitable?
{{leans back and lights the dream pipe}}
There's a lot of flying monkeys in here.
{{taps head with forefinger}}

do something about it then, since it makes you so sad, but don't talk to me like I'm stupid or it's my fault... Put up or shut up, as they say...

LOL, I am.
I'm not sad about it tho?
Personally, I think its entertaining as hell.
Plus, your paranoia that I am making you out to be the cause or attacking your intelligence just makes me ROTFL
rofl

mightymoe

Mon 02/19/18 06:54 PM

it's always been about money and greed...that's how a capitalist system works... But we turned the rest of the world into it in the last 20 years...

So, I guess that makes it acceptable?
I guess that makes it inevitable?
{{leans back and lights the dream pipe}}
There's a lot of flying monkeys in here.
{{taps head with forefinger}}

do something about it then, since it makes you so sad, but don't talk to me like I'm stupid or it's my fault... Put up or shut up, as they say...

LOL, I am.
I'm not sad about it tho?
Personally, I think its entertaining as hell.
Plus, your paranoia that I am making you out to be the cause or attacking your intelligence just makes me ROTFL
rofl

good, it's healthy to laugh...

tombraider

Mon 02/19/18 07:12 PM

No one is saying that Mexicans are stupid Ms.H ..I'm just say they would be more apt to be complacent because our minimum wage is more than they're use to making in their country..

But let's face it minimum wage will never be worth more than it is because everything goes up to cover the rise..And you don't have to be a Mexican to be desperate there are plenty of desperate people here ..because after all who wants to work for minimum wage in the first place..It's not like it really provides a living ..hell barely an existence at best..

I'm just saying that because minimum wage is more.. than some foreigners are use to making than that they're more apt to be complacent..so don't put words in my mouth..if I want to call someone stupid ..I will say stupid..trust me I won't hold back no matter who it is.. spock

Tom4Uhere

Mon 02/19/18 07:32 PM

what keeps 3rd world countries 3rd world is that the people are oppressed. Usually, sadistically.
Part of that oppression is lack of nutrition and lack of proper education. There are other parts too.

The oppressors don't want their subjects thinking. They don't want them using good judgement and sound reasoning.

Mexico is progressing towards 1st world standards. Mexico is still oppressed by cartels and coruption in government but they are thinking better than ever before. With this clarity they know they want a 1st world lifestyle, something more than what they have at home. So they migrate towards the nearest 1st world country in search of that. The US just happens to be the nearest 1st world country.

They come here, they eat better, are treated better and their thinking clears.

The Mexican people are not the reason we have illegal immigrants, the oppression that keeps them in 3rd world status is. Mexico becomes 1st world, migration will slow to a trickle. There might even be an exodus.

Edited by Tom4Uhere on Mon 02/19/18 07:34 PM

tombraider

Mon 02/19/18 08:01 PM

Truth is I don't care who comes here I just want people to follow the laws the way we have to, when I was in the military and went to a foreign country I was respectful of the people their culture and their laws.But I can understand people wanting a better life but there is the right way to go about it.

As I have mentioned before I worked in construction and sometimes with Mexicans and those I worked with were some of the hardest workers that I stood back to back with..I just don't agree with some who have the idea that they should jump to the front of the line while others have been waiting a long time..must be the ex cop in me..

I agree with a lot you say there Tom but I can't help but think that in some ways our country keeps us stupid in the way we go through twelve years of education and come out with an education that starts us at the bottom flipping hamburgers at some restaurant.

I think that's a lot of our problems here and that in order to get a better education a better job we have to pay for college..why..what the hell did we just go to school for 12 years for..to start at the bottom..

most of it is pretty much useless ,,they talk about how we don't have enough people in this profession or that..I think if companies esp tech would get involved with the high schools that these kids could come out not starting at the bottom and these companies could follow their progress and would have a slew of applicants from which to choose..jmo..

Tom4Uhere

Mon 02/19/18 08:41 PM

I do agree there's a lot of things that need fixin.
As a mechanic, if I had a truck needing this kind of work I'd junk it and go get a new one.
But, the refurbisher in me know that everything can be fixed given the dedication to the cause (dedication includes funding).
You strip it down to the frame and make that like new then you work each piece until you have a totally rebuilt truck that functions correctly, oh, and they look pretty too.
Not sure how that might work with our nation but, I do know that the first step in refurb is to get rid of the bad drivers.

This truck (we call a nation) has been driven badly and abused for a very long time. There's chaw spit in the interior, scratches and dents all over, the wheels are wobbling and the transmission is grinding. Its got broken springs, worn out shocks, the differential is slipping and the axles are bent. The windsheild is cracked but you wouldn't know it because the headlights point all which way and the wipers stopped working.
I'm amazed its still on the road, hope DOT doesn't see it.