depending on which translation you are using Provers 13:24 means the same
The message-
24 A refusal to correct is a refusal to love;
love your children by disciplining them.
NIV
24 He who spares the rod hates his son,
but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.
New Living translation
24 Those who spare the rod of discipline hate their children.
Those who love their children care enough to discipline them.
Todays NIV
24 Those who spare the rod hate their children,
but those who love them are careful to discipline them.
Arabic Life Application bible
24 مَنْ كَفَّ عَنْ تَأْدِيبِ ابْنِهِ يَمْقُتُهُ، وَمَنْ يُحِبُّ ابْنَهُ يَسْعَى إِلَى تَأْدِيبِهِ.
As you can see the main theme of this verse, no matter which version you read, is that to not do any discipline is to not show any love.
As far as what works for your child will work for your child. This thread keeps going on and on with the same thing. If you truly believe your side to be right make an argument for the other side. Are there any real benefits. what do studies show. It might amaze you what is found out. Did you know long term effects vary depending on race? Take a look. the studies are there. Just to give you a hint. Physical punishment affects whites more than it affects minorities. If you want the studies i will see if i can find them otherwise just do an advance search in google "long term effects of spanking" only search *.org sites (reputable sites for studies end in .org or .edu)
If memory serves there is also a scripture that is along the lines of ..when a child mis-behaves he should be taken to his fathers house and killed...you didn't add that one.
There is a difference between hitting and discipline..that is what this thread keeps coming back to.
I think you are referring to Deuteronomy 21:18-21. Yes it does say that when you pull it out of context. lets look at what it says.
18-20 When a man has a stubborn son, a real rebel who won't do a thing his mother and father tell him, and even though they discipline him he still won't obey, his father and mother shall forcibly bring him before the leaders at the city gate and say to the city fathers, "This son of ours is a stubborn rebel; he won't listen to a thing we say. He's a glutton and a drunk."
21 Then all the men of the town are to throw rocks at him until he's dead. You will have purged the evil pollution from among you. All Israel will hear what's happened and be in awe.
The context that you forgot was they had disciplined him and he still would not change. Now I think this is also referring to adult children. not little children. How often are little children referred to as drunks. Also the answer was not that they kill them but bring them to the elders to decide what to do with him.
Remember there was a different time. There was not stock market. no desk jobs. the family survival depended on all able bodied people working. That is why it also says he who will not work should not eat, not he who can not work. So lets exchange this to a modern day story and see if you see it still as wrong.
A 25 year old living in his parents basement refuses to stop cooking meth in there. The 25 year old has also been watching child porn as part of his addiction. His parents discipline him(non-violent) for sake of argument and he still refuses to change. they have done everything they know how so they turn him over to police. well the 25 year old is convicted of child pornography and attempt to manufacture a controlled substance. he is placed in General population in prison where he is then murdered. would you fault the parents for this?
Short version but illustrates the point that the decision to murder was left up to the community. not the parents. had the parents decided to murder on their own choice without consulting the community they lived in they themselves would been punished with murder as part of the commandments. also remember there was no paxil, Zoloft or all the assortment of drugs we have available now.
Edited by
Jon85213
on Mon 08/17/09 08:54 AM