Corruption is deep within Chicago.
And a very dark cloud hovers over Chicago.
I wonder what the mayor has to say about all this death and destruction...

It would be interesting to know the aids rate in that area.

At some point you would think the man would stand up and say.." we really need help". How can someone look at themselves in the mirror knowing more could have been done?

what does he say to the dead kids families?.. what could he possible say.

I don't blame the cops.. at all. they need help. from the state and or government.

I'm sure it is very very high as is the overdose rate. The drug of choice is heroin nowadays... cheap and strong.

Mayor's been on tv saying. He will fight for Chicago. Staying a sanctuary City.

He cannot even help in protecting. his own residents of. Chicago.

always an interrogation, it was suggested to hear some solutions and SOME solutions were provided,, but onto the new questions

As to how would I do that? which 'that' are you referring to? I provided a list of potential ways to attack the problem simultaneously, not just one.

as to would it involve getting the guns off the streets? I dont know how to do that actually without violating the same constitutional rights gun advocates all over the country constantly reem about after school shootings.

nothing is wrong with disarming 'thugs' IF and AFTER they have committed a crime that warrants that right be denied them or IF they have stolen weapons.


I imagine the same number will be killed without any programs as will be in implementing some.

To see what the community is doing, feel free to research resources about THAT community. I dont live there to know what measures are being taken and have not seen it reported, which means research would be required. I dont feel like researching it for others.

Do I think the blame should be on the parents? No. Unless they are raising them and encouraging them to take lives. Otherwise, I see them as most likely doing what they need to do to keep their head above water which might mean they cant be in their kid's back pockets 24/7.

Why do we have to train parents to be parents? No one said we did. But people do learn from their environment and experiences, so they need the experiences that provide them knowledge and belief in better ways.

Why do we have to train thugs not to shoot people? Well, I would say because as long as children are CHILDREN their brains absorb and learn from the examples they are immersed in daily.


but it is strange to have to defend an attempt to provide solutions that are not so subjective as to depend on someone defining and predicting who will be a 'thug' or not.

What is stranger is to hear a person defend these thugs and the parents who raised them because of the color of their skin

yet, Im not the one who brought up skin color NOW or when there were school shootings .... just saying, pot meet kettle


the idea was put forth under the guise of caring about the kids about ideas on how to help them be safer, and I provided mine ... however others break them down or introduce skin color into it, is more their issue than mine...


the absence of negative stereotyping groups and broad brushing complex situations is not the same as 'defending' anyone.


from https://reason.com/archives/2018/08/13/the-truth-behind-chicagos-violence

There are not, in fact, more murders in Chicago than ever before. The number of homicides peaked at 920 in 1991. The death toll last year was 674—and that was down 15 percent from 2016. This year, even with the latest frenzy of shootings, the number of homicides is 25 percent lower than it was at this point in 2017.


and a graph



indicating that this is not the worst its been and is actually better than it has been in past years(depending on the years one chooses) so there are apparently either measures (outside of military reaction) that reduce the numbers or there is a NATURAL reduction somehow .... but I dont see how the military would be the answer to resort to first, when other things apparently work to reduce the numbers

Did you see the color of the people training kids for school shootings in New Mexico?

Don't try to qualify these shooting..o.k., because it can't be qualified.

And don't try to state that over 30 shootings in one weekend is somehow.. better then its been, because that only hurts your agenda more. ( over 60 shootings in 2 weeks)

And it is the color of their skin that makes you defend. This is obvious to the majority of the people here and it is nothing you haven't heard many many times before. Because if they were white you would never defend them like you do. You have never in the past defended the white animals who killed school children, never came up with a long term plan to treat these animals.... why is that? But because the color of the skin is the same as your... it is different.. right?
And for some reason we have to re educate them. spend money to rebuild schools, spend more money on housing, teach them a trade so they don't shoot people.. kill people.

Have we ever had to do that with any other ethnic group?.. no?.. then why do we have to do it with the black community? Do we owe it to them?.. why do we owe it to them?


Like I said before, I would love to be in the room with you as you try to explain your " logic" and pie charts to the families of the kids shot or killed.

Explain to them that things.. are actually better. Explain to them that you have a long term plan to re-educate people.. including... them.
I would take bets on how fast one of those ladies has you by the hair ;)

Doesn't fit in the agenda.

Nothing justifies the shootings in Chicago. It's criminals trying to control neighborhoods by Violence . Law enforcement has to step in and clean up crime infested areas.

It addresses a comment. Arguing about color doesn't fix the problem. We didn't have 60 school shooting this week in Chicago. If we had, that would be the topic. Solutions can't be found if the problem isn't identified. Back to work for me.

You are right, nothing justifies this.. nothing.

And the cops or whoever else needs to clean house... now.. not wait for some community minded 10 prong plan to kick in years from now ( if ever)... now.

Until that happens, this will not stop.... why would it?

And the mayor needs to take responsibility.. sorry Mr. Mayor.. but it is your house. If you can't do it, move over and let others et it done.

such an obsession in these threads. it is truly unbelievable.

I agree. Explanation and justification are not the same though. everything has an explanation, whether everyone relates to the explanations or not.

Criminal element is control by violence, but when young people are recruited, there is indication many of them are also being 'controlled' by the violence and threat of violence. Many are not just throw away 'thugs' but young people trying to survive the only way they have seen to survive or known to survive.

the conditions have to change as well as the perception of treating them all like worthless throwaways if anything is truly going to 'save the kids'.

violence will not just 'stop' anywhere. But it does decrease. It has decreased in Chicago before. So perhaps the citizens and leadership can take an example of some of the things they did that may have lead to that decrease ( I dont recall national guard ever being called in before, although there was a period of MUCH higher killing that eventually dropped significantly)

is it best to do the instant but not long lasting, or to do what may take time but actually stick ...?

If the police try to fix the problem, it's only a matter of time before protesting begins. The people in these neighborhoods are the problem. They won't be happy being arrested or family arrested. I guess the police just said to hell with it.

I can see both points with greeneyes148 and msharmony.

Something has to be done "right now" to remove the problem.
Something also needs to be done "over time" to assure the problem doesn't start up again.

Its a two-part solution where each part plays a vital role.

It makes me think of the 5 Monkey Parable for social repair.
Here it is, give it some thought and see if it doesn't explain both concepts...

Researchers created a comfortable zoo-like habitat for five monkeys, in order to do an experiment. When the monkeys has sufficiently adapted to their new home, and had forged some relationships, a bundle of bananas was presented to them, a treat they rarely had in ordinary feeding. To get to the bananas, the monkey would need to climb a ladder (or steps) to get to them.

On the first trial, the bananas were presented, and all five monkeys began to climb the ladder to get them. Once all of the monkeys were on the ladder, they were sprayed with ice-cold water, which scared and agitated them. They gave up on the bananas for a time. Later, the bravest of the bunch again mounted the ladder, and again they were hosed with water, all five of them, even the ones who had not tested the ladder.

The third time one of the monkeys went to mount the ladder, the other four became agitated and growled and pushed at the brave monkey until he gave up on trying to get to the ladder. The monkeys from then on reminded the others that to be on the ladder was a certain cold shower.

At some point, one of these monkeys was replaced with a new monkey, one who was not familiar with the habitat. Instinctively, he made for the ladder, and was immediately pushed and threatened by the others. He eventually gave up his quest for fear of being beaten by the others.

Eventually, a second new monkey had replaced an original. Interestingly, the first replacement, one who was never sprayed with water, joined the others in rebuking and threatening the newcomer as she tried to get to the bananas. The same phenomenon was observed as they replaced the third and fourth monkeys.

Finally, the researchers replaced the fifth monkey with a newcomer, making five monkeys in the habitat that had never been punished with cold water for climbing on the ladder. The new one, as expected, went to climb the ladder, and the other four, as before, screamed and threatened her until she gave up and went to do something else.

Behavior can be changed over time but it requires an immediate action and lessons being learned.

Taking immediate action without a lesson being learned will result in repeat behavior requiring more and more action being needed, even with new participants.

I agree with that Tom, a long term solution could and should be found. What I asked (point blank)to the lefties was

What do we right now.. not years from now...now

Because for some reason they seem to be against going in right now and disarming these thugs and jailing them. And frankly I don't understand why when they do not seem to have a alternate immediate solution.

Other then... " it seems to be getting better, the graft chart says so".. is that a plan?.. just wait and see?, because how many more 60 shot weekends will it take before they wake up and say " Hmmm,you know.. maybe we should take those guns away from them and get these animals off the street.

I just wonder, if any of there their loved ones lived in those Chicago areas, would that " wait and see" attitude be still be fine with them?.. would it , really?.. somehow, I think ... not

It reminds me of those old WW2 movies where the generals are standing in the war room making decisions on where to send the men into battle. That that was fine with them too.. it wasn't their a*s being shot at.